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Curly

Partner rape

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Curly

An article by Debra Parkinson in the DVRCV newsletter. Link here

Personally apart from the feelings of unwarranted shame associated with reporting these crimes I don't think there is a place on earth where the is a good chance of getting a conviction. It appears that for the most part it is the victim who has to prove herself and not the perpetrator. The victim gets raked over the coals and through the muck.

The nature of the crime is that it will be he said she said. There rarely will be real forensic evidence that the act was not consensual.

I do wonder how we can change this and how we can change the attitude that a spouse is something you own and can use as you wish?

No one has the right to use another's body without freely given consent and approval.

No one should be forced by any means into any sexual act against their wishes.

Every person should have the right to say no to any unwanted use of their body and have that respected.

It upsets me to think there are many people out there who do think they own their spouse and can do to them as they please.

I think that more education is required and from a young age.

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percolate

I agree with everything you've said. Maybe things will change in the future...one of my colleagues is doing research related to injury and is developing a way to distinguish between consensual intercourse and rape. I hope she is able to develop a reliable test so perpetrators can no longer get away with a he said/she said type of situation.

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Curly

I don't think there is any way that anyone will be able to test for coercion where it is blackmail rather than force that is used.

How do you prove that the sex was unwanted when the unwilling spouse consents because the partner is likely to turn to her daughter instead if the spouse refuses? I can't see that there can be much in the way of evidence where it is a mental or emotional threat used or implied.

How do you show a woman consents to sex only because she would be subjected to hours of verbal and emotional torture if she refuses?

To me this is rape. It is unwelcome and unwanted sex. It is the violation of a woman's body. The consent is only given because there appears to be no other tolerable option.

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percolate
I don't think there is any way that anyone will be able to test for coercion where it is blackmail rather than force that is used.

How do you prove that the sex was unwanted when the unwilling spouse consents because the partner is likely to turn to her daughter instead if the spouse refuses? I can't see that there can be much in the way of evidence where it is a mental or emotional threat used or implied.

How do you show a woman consents to sex only because she would be subjected to hours of verbal and emotional torture if she refuses?

To me this is rape. It is unwelcome and unwanted sex. It is the violation of a woman's body. The consent is only given because there appears to be no other tolerable option.

Excellent point. She won't be able to tell that...but she is able to tell the difference between forced (physically) and consensual intercourse. Which in the US, especially in a date-rape situation, is often ignored because of the he said/she said issue. Thank you for reminding me that the issue is broader than the use of force (which my colleague is focusing on).

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Becky

I think that more education is required and from a young age.

Yes! As one who works daily with very young children, I see a great need for the teaching of boundaries and respect for others. And I see parents who need those lessons as well. Some of the kids have horrible role models.

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TimsGirl

the topic of partner rape is always upsetting to me. My daughter was conceived because my ex wouldn't take no for an answer just two days after I had major surgery.

She was a very much wanted baby. Don't ever get me wrong about that. I had always wanted to have children as soon as I got married. But after actually getting married, I decided to use contraception because it was obvious my then husband wasn't mature enough, and it only took less than six months for his abusive nature to show through so I basically gave up on my deep desire to have children. Because as much as I deeply wanted children, I love a child so much that I refused to deliberately bring them into that situation.

But with my then husband raping me, I had no say in conceiving. And I personally believe that a bad situation is better than a death sentence (ie abortion). And anyway, after a huge breakdown after our daughter was born, my then husband finally admitted the seriousness of his mental health problems and started meds and got off drugs. Eventually some stuff happened (which actually wasnt his fault but he still chose how he responded to it) and he stopped the meds and went back on the drugs.

I couldn't hate him for raping me - I loved my precious daughter more than anything else in the world, and I'd go through it a thousand times if it's what led to having her.

But doesn't make it right. It still makes me sick. Along with some stuff that happened two years later (I was sexually assaulted by a stranger and my then husband constantly bullied me into having sex with him despite the fact it was traumatising me every time, even worse, forcing myself to have sex with him wasn't enough for him - if I even subconsciously flinched when he kept doing the things my attacker did despite me constantly reminding him that's whatmy attacked did - even if I just flinchd a little without realising I had even done it, he'd berate me and go off at me, telling me I didn't love him because I couldn't pretend 100% to enjoy what he was doing, etc).

Forcing myself wasn't enough, pretending I enjoyed it was enough, becauseI let my guard slip for just an instant when he deliberately kept doing what my attacker did - then he thought that gave him the right to say I didn't love him and scream at me for hours after.

but it's what one of my closest friends did to me that I can't forgive. She knew what he had done to me. all of it. I initially kicked him out for bashing our daughter in the head, but it was only supposed to be a physical seperation not a marital one - I had long been advised before he even did it, that even if he did hurt our daughter, it wouldn't be enough to stop him getting shared custody. I knew the only way to keep her safe as long as he insisted on being in her life, was for him to get his drug use and mental illness sorted. So even though I'd made him leave the house, he was supposed to be staying with his sister while waiting to get into rehab, and once a professional declared him clean and mentally unstable, he'd move back in.

Of course I found out after I asked to him leave, he moved in with a woman that I found out he'd been having an affair with for quite some time, but after she kicked him out, he begged me for another chance and I was giving it to him (living apart until a mental health professional could guarantee his psychotic episodes were under control, but still "together").

Unfortunately what I didn't know is the mistress I first found out about wasn't the only one. One of my very closest friends who I trusted totally had been having an affair with him for years - in fact a big part of the problem was she'd been telling him that it's ok to use drugs, that he didn't need his meds, that violence in relationships is "normal" and "everyone does it" (exact quotes - she actually told me directly that's what she'd been saying about violence in relationships, in fact, sadly she honestly believes it).

Before I found out about there long affair, she'd got so mad that after everything she'd done to try to break us up, that after our first seperation we were reconciling, that she decided to do whatever it took to stop it.

The sick low life knew about him raping me and all the times he coerced me into doing it (whther you call that rape, sexual assault or "just" abuse), she decided to split us permanently by telling me he'd tricked her into getting stoned then raped her.

After everything he put me through, she knew I'd believe her. I don't even know why she bothered - if she'd just told me about their affair, that would have been enough to make me not give him another chance ever again. Why pretend that he'd raped her??? surely she had to realise the fact that he moved in with her a few weeks later would have make everyone realise that her claim he raped her was rubbish???

But apparently some people don't think.

I mean seriously, it's bad enough that someone pretends to have been raped, but to tell tells lies pretending to be raped to someone that has genuinely been raped, it's just sick.

My ex actually had the audacity to say to me I was completely unforgivable for believing he'd raped her. Considering what he'd done to me, and all the times he'd threaten to hurt my friends to get back at me, and all the many many times he had lied to me (he's a genuine compulsive liar, even making up lies for no reason at all at times), after everything he had done to me, why wouldn't I believe him he could do that to one of my friends who was claiming he had?

what is more disgusting is, while he told me I was unforgivable for saying it, he told me he loved her all the more for claiming it - because if she was willing to pretend she was raped so she could have him all to herself (and his dozen other mistresses and manstresses, but that's another story), then she must really "love" him.

The illogical stupidity that some abusers go to to justify their sick actions astounds me at times.

But yeah, for all that my ex did to me, it's the sicko that pretended to me she'd been raped because she knew what my ex had done to me and knew I'd assume she was being truthful - that's what hurt the most.

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tori

(((((Timsgirl)))))

Your not alone TimsGirl. All I can say is enjoy and relish your good days, hang onto them and the feelings your good days give you to give you the strength to get through the bad days. Best of luck

With any sex offence in South Australia, the actual conviction rate is 2% to 3%. It's discusting and there needs some sort of reform. The problem is how high the standard of proof is and the fact that in the court system, they would rather 10 guilty people walk free than 1 innocent person go to jail. I agree with both of these points but would love to find some way of proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt without the trauma of trial. (speaking from experience)

I was lucky in getting the convictions of Rape and Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a minor as I later (with broken ribs) married one of the offenders once I turned 18. He taped it though and there was also medical evidence of his DNA from when I was 14 (and in his care).

Research is desperately needed in accurately finding guilt in sexual crimes.

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Echo

Yeah, I don't see how they could discern the difference either unless they was some violence used. I've had it happen to me as well with my abuser, and yes, he felt he owned me. I left him not a whole lot after he did it the first time and attempted a second time but I escaped him that time. It's sickening. I didn't do anything about it. I was confused about it, didn't realize it was a crime as he was my husband, etc. that maybe the law wouldn't help me and I couldn't do a thing to stop it except leave him. I felt disgusted about it and was too embrassed to say anything to anyone. The first person I told was my counselor after I left him and she looked shocked and told me it was rape what he did. I wont go into details here but I did with her. I might have been bruised after from the way he forced me but I don't remember, like I seemed to always forget my abuse until it pops back into my head at some odd time. There definitely should be much tighter laws for this sort of thing and more public awareness.

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TooLong

How do you show a woman consents to sex only because she would be subjected to hours of verbal and emotional torture if she refuses?

This happened to me a couple of times between March and May 2010. The first time was when he had spent two weeks telling me how rotten I was, yet again. I turned down sex the first night and he firt starting lists all the ways I disappoint him again until I was crying in a ball. Then raged at me until I was begging forgiveness. The next day he carried me to our bedroom and said he was doing what he should have done the day before. He began removing my clothes and fondling me while I stood there sobbing, with my hands at my sides. I sobbed through the entire thing and after he had sex with me he said "I hope that was the right thing". I just mumble something about don't know what is right. I didn't want to be screamed at any more or told how rotten I was again. I couldn't emotionally take any more. He just got up, got dressed and went about his business. He had sex with me three days later where I again, just laid there and didn't even touch him. The next day he was cold and hateful.A few days later he was screaming on the phone and telling me how awful I was and I asked how could he have had sex with me and then treated me like dirt the next morning. He said he "just wanted physical comfort and since I was the only one he did things like that with..."..when I said "so you used me??" He said "not what you wanted to hear, huh?" He had no love or even caring of any nature...he just wanted to "get off"....I don't even comprehend how that was enjoyable for him? Who can enjoy sex when the person they are having it with is crying??

In May, something similar happened (there was no sex in between...and we used to do it every day, but I could not stomach it). He got me in the basement one day, asked if I wanted to (he was still being awful on a daily basis, and I was afraid of him exploding), so I just shrugged. He started removing my clothes and fondling me and I again stood there with my hands hanging at my sides, crying and sobbing and he just continued to fondle me, moved me to the sofa, faced me away from him and had sex with me while I cried with my hands balled into fists. When he was done, we sat on the sofa and while I got dressed in silence, with tears still running, he said "Did I do something wrong?" I said "didn't you notice I was crying the whole time? Why would you keep going if I was crying and sobbing?". he got angry and said that he asked me and I should have made my boundaries clear and I ended up apologizing for "not making my boundaries clear..it was my fault.

Both times I was disgusted..I felt used, like I didn't matter at all, my tears meant nothing to him, I was just a piece of meat...and yes, almost raped. I couldn't believe that someone who was telling me he wanted me for his wife, that he loved me, would use me in that way and then not even feel shame when I told him I felt used. Yes, how do you get someone to understand that you didn't actually say no...that the emotional pain he would have put me through....which he had done before, was, at least at that moment, worse than being physically used..raped (that word is hard for me). I know many people that would have the attitude, that well, you let him, you should have said something. But they have no idea the mental anguish he would have put me through...which then caused physical reactions..shaking, stomach pain, sleeplessness, fatigue, etc. Those incidents still give me shivers. GAWD, that was triggering...I feel the need to shower......

TooLong

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vpc

((((((((TooLong))))))))

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moongoddess

Both times I was disgusted..I felt used, like I didn't matter at all, my tears meant nothing to him, I was just a piece of meat...and yes, almost raped

((((((((((((((TOOLONG))))))))))))))))

I still see what you described as RAPE...I am so sorry this happened to you...

I remember ONE incident in my marriage...I remember sitting at my desk at work (while working as a DV crisis counselor) and trying to wrap my head around what had happened the night before, I felt sick......

I felt like a fraud (in a way) here I was with an abuser...counseling abused women..

*HUGE HUGS*

MG :nature-smiley-008:

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TooLong

((((((((((((((TOOLONG))))))))))))))))

I still see what you described as RAPE...I am so sorry this happened to you...

I remember ONE incident in my marriage...I remember sitting at my desk at work (while working as a DV crisis counselor) and trying to wrap my head around what had happened the night before, I felt sick......

I felt like a fraud (in a way) here I was with an abuser...counseling abused women..

*HUGE HUGS*

MG :nature-smiley-008:

Thanks, MG, I'm so glad you are out, too. When I think of this I so badly want to scream at him, smack him, tell him how he made me feel and just generally tell him what a rotten excuse for a man he is to have done those things to me. I know it would mean nothing, though...he would have all his handy excuses why his behavior was all right..the ones that allow him to sleep at night. I truly don't know how people like this live with themselves. How do they truly delude themselves into believing their actions are acceptable??

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moongoddess

Thanks, MG, I'm so glad you are out, too. When I think of this I so badly want to scream at him, smack him, tell him how he made me feel and just generally tell him what a rotten excuse for a man he is to have done those things to me. I know it would mean nothing, though...he would have all his handy excuses why his behavior was all right..the ones that allow him to sleep at night. I truly don't know how people like this live with themselves. How do they truly delude themselves into believing their actions are acceptable??

(((((((((((((((((((((TOOLONG)))))))))))))))))))

YOU, my darlin', are one of my heroes...

*MG* :wub: :wub: :wub:

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TooLong

(((((((((((((((((((((TOOLONG)))))))))))))))))))

YOU, my darlin', are one of my heroes...

*MG* :wub: :wub: :wub:

Thanks, MG, but I don't know why...I did the same thing you and so many on here did...only wish I did it sooner to save my babies some grief:)

Hugs, Girl

TooLong

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moongoddess

Thanks, MG, but I don't know why...I did the same thing you and so many on here did...only wish I did it sooner to save my babies some grief:)

Hugs, Girl

TooLong

because you had such a HARD fight, yanno?

I KNOW how hard it was for you to come out the other side......

and YOUR babies will be okay, because you have come out the other side...THE MOMMA bear has awoken and is ON THE JOB!

:wub:

*MG*

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seren

It was rape. It is rape. Every signal you were sending said NO. That the word didn't come out of your mouth was simply because of fear. There was a long history of abuse and it makes total sense that you were scared to say no. Being verbally abused for no apparent reason sets us up for not being able to expect rational responses from our abusers. Therefore, when we are in such a totally vunerable position, if we can't get out the verbal NO, that doesn't make it any less rape. You can't be a little bit pregnant and you can't be kind of raped. It is an awful word and I cringe when I tell my story but it is what it is and it does help to recognise that my ex is a rapest in it's most basic form. What makes it worse is I loved my rapest.

My ex raped me repeatedly throughout the 13 years. Some were incidents like you described, some were more violent. I didn't understand it was rape until after I had left and he was living with a new woman and came to my house and raped me. I still didn't get it until I was sitting at the police office filling out the paper work for an RO and saw the guidelines taped to the officer's desk...it was as if the entire world stopped turning. All of the sudden I was not just a whiney wife or frigid or a whore...I was a victim of a very serious crime.

When I went in front of the judge for the RO, he was leaning towards not giving it to me. He asked me point blank if anything had happened when my ex was in my house and it was the most humilating thing I have ever done to say out loud the details of that final rape. The judge signed off on the RO with a quickness and the court officer directed me to our local DV shelter for emergency counseling.

It was the worst day with the best outcome. I got the help and knowledge I needed to really start healing.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs to all of us who have been there)))))))))))))))))))))))))

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blackbird

(((((((((((((TooLong))))))))))))))

My story is very similar...and the selfishness of it all still confounds me. I think there's just so much confusion around partner rape..when you're in a relationship, the lines are blurred. Even on one of those occasions, when I did tell him to stop...twice...I still didn't recognize it for what it was until after he left and I was in counseling. But I do remember very well how I felt that day; like a ghost...barely able to function.

Maybe it's because of the way we perceive rape? Just like so many of us thought we weren't abused because we weren't regularly beaten, when it comes to partner rape, perhaps the same parallel applies? We don't see it for what it is, because the perpetrator is not a stranger and we may not have been physically attacked. I never was. I had no control, but I wasn't beaten.

For me though, sharing what I had been through on this forum and then printing my post out and sharing it with Sir Shackleton, Grace, and my therapist was the day I regained my power and dropped the shame. I had done NOTHING wrong. Neither did you.

About a week later, I shared that same post with my family. While I'm sure it was difficult for them to read, I think it answered a lot of questions for them. And today? If someone asked me about it, I wouldn't hesitate to answer their questions because THE SHAME IS NOT MINE.

I hope that, someday, you're able to share this with your IRL network and that you find the same love, support, and validation that I received.

Hang in there, sweetie.

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mysteriousskye

I only realised i was raped by my ex about 6mths after i left him. I was doing a support group with other women who have experienced domestic violence. It wasnt until we reached the 'boundaries' topic that i thought i could have been raped. I asked the group leaders 'if i didnt say no, and there was no violence during sex, but i didnt want it, was it rape?'. The leaders said 'there are many ways to say no, and if it was unwanted then yes it was rape'. Time stopped for me. I couldnt believe that ontop of all the emotional, verbal, spiritual and physical abuse that he put me and my children through, he also HAD raped me. I too was racked over the coals daily for hours for not pleasing him with everything i did or didnt do throughout my days of torture under his power and control. After his abuse began, I didnt want sex with him. full stop. But like so many of you, if i said i wasnt in the mood i was called dirty names, and drilled for hours and hours. I was very sleep deprived, he only ever allowed me to go to sleep for 2-4 hrs every night, and only once he had drilled me from around 7pm until 2 or 4 am. Every night. A lot of the time i had to pretend to want him so that i didnt get the verbal and emotional abuse. I feel there is no point in having him charged for the rapes because i would not be able to give details of dates, times, wot happened, and maybe more importantly get an understanding from the judicial system that there was no violence during sex however it was still rape. How did he ever expect me to 'desire' him when all he could do was berate, abuse and humiliate me and my children? I have 'relatively' dealt with everything else to do with his abuse, theres major emotional scaring and some physical scarring, but its the rape that i have a lot of trouble dealing with because i dont think there is anything the police can do to bring him to justice.

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Curly

How did he ever expect me to 'desire' him when all he could do was berate, abuse and humiliate me and my children? I have 'relatively' dealt with everything else to do with his abuse, theres major emotional scaring and some physical scarring, but its the rape that i have a lot of trouble dealing with because i dont think there is anything the police can do to bring him to justice.

A question many here have wondered. It does not compute in the abuser's brain that "treat her like dirt and you will turn off her desire" Makes perfect sense to most of us though.

There is a big gap between what we understand is in fact rape, any unwanted or unwelcome sex which a person was pressured or coerced into in any way, compared to what is rape that has a chance of being proven in court. I know of instances where the unspoken threat has been that the abuser would look to a daughter for sex if the woman refused. It is rape no matter what threat or pressuring is used.

The law fails us in many ways sometimes out of plain ignorance or because false myths are accepted as true but at other times it is simply that some things are close to impossible to prove and the guilty will always get the benefit of the doubt.

You can tell us. You know your own truth. You can also talk to a group that helps and supports survivors of sexual abuse. We hear you and believe you. I think you can get validation from others here and that is something that can help you heal.

He raped you. It was wrong and it was not your fault.

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lotsofcritters

What you guys have been describing has happened to me more times than I can remember. There are 2 or 3 that I would classify as rape, not violent, but I asked him not to and he did it anyway. Most of the other times, I just give in, even though it hurts now after a hysterectomy and bladder sling. If I don't, one of these will happen: nothing, I'll be called worthless and other such names, I might be hit or pinned down, he'll start playing the baby and saying how awful I am to him, lately its that I treat him like a dog and he starts barking. He is upset that I don't want to touch him. I think it has all been ruined for me. I don't mind some touching and stuff, as long as I let him and he doesn't wake me, which happens almost every day. If he walks by me, he'll grab me, or force me to kiss him. My son asked me the other day why i don't like him. He's too young to tell him the why, but he notices, and you know I probably don't treat him too nice. But, I fix him dinner, bring him anything he asks for, do anything he asks me to do, etc. I hate going to bed because I don't know if I'll be allowed to sleep, or if he'll do something crazy. I feel bad that I don't want him to do things with me. But, it all feels like a manipulation to stick the thing inside me. I don't feel loved, even though he tells me daily that he loves me. I just don't see how he can treat me the way he does and say he loves me.

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moongoddess
I don't feel loved, even though he tells me daily that he loves me. I just don't see how he can treat me the way he does and say he loves me.

that is the huge red flag .....words and actions don't match

LOVE is an action word.....LOVE is shown

What your H is doing is giving LIP SERVICE..he says the words, but does not back those words up with action....

((((((((((((((((LOC))))))))))))))

*WARM HUGS*

MG :nature-smiley-008:

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MorningGlory

(((((((Hug to all you ladys here)))))

I have a hard time remembering my mind is starting to block it. I had one experience where he choose to try the back side with out my consent. When I was saying your in the wrong spot he keep saying no I am not like he always intended to be there. No conversation just taking. No special aides to help. Then I said stop your hurting me he continued. Then tried going forever. Come on the goose egg knew. Then afterwards pretended he did not know he was in there and that I should have told him. I said I said this you knew!!! He try to make it look like my communication was not clear and he like you siad had at me for accusing him of trying to hurt me that I did not make him understand that it was my fault. That it was my body but like he had no responsibility or feeling in his body. He knew! Emotional abuse is this. If you are in a situation where communicating breaks down and one person can not be heard and forced to a action that they would say no to in the beginning the middle and the end. If I had a daughter after that experience I would teach her that before you do in be you have to talk about what your doing and both agree. If he tries anything else stop get up and walk out and call it a night. Only make love on days your emotionally treated well. So if he was aggressive with you emotionally all day. It means no sex that night. If he wants to be with you he will have to show that through out the day. This is to send a clear message that I will not allow myself to be treated that way. That is it not going to accept abuse to be with me I require emotional respect. Something I never had for myself because I would back down. He would argue with me for about 4 hours to get his way. Eventually you get tired. I got to the point I did just because I wanted a good night sleep and he would leave me alone. We ant to be so happy and say it has not failed What I see is that many mom put the teaching emotions to their daughters and leave the other stuff to wives to sort. It like society expects women to teach a man to respect her but they do not teach young boys to be a respectful man other than in public.

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hoping

My H. used to plead and beg me to have sex with him when I didn't want to. Sometimes I was tired or not in the mood, but most of the time I didn't want to because we had been arguing. Other times, I believe it was because he emotionally and verbally abused me. He didn't act like it mattered to him that we had just been arguing and I didn't feel close to him. This bothered me, but I thought it was and still wonder if it is just how men are. I know some people find it a turn on to have sex after arguing. I don't. He didn't seem that way either. Arguing didn't seem to affect him. I did give in most of the time. Times that I didn't give in I remember going to the other bedroom to sleep and being afraid when I heard something because he would come in their and beg and plea with me. It seemed like this went on for at least 30 minutes. Sometimes I think he would even come back later if I refused to try to talk me into it. I tried really hard to feel intimate with him in stead of just having sex, but finally gave up on it. I don't think I realized, it was impossible or at least not healthy when he had been emotionally or verbally abusing me. I now have sex with him, but it is not for intimacy. Most of the time it is just so he will be content and not bother me about it. Most of the time I just want to get it over so I can go on and do what I want with my life. There have been times when I hated him for talking me into doing a sex act I didn't want to do. I did it because I was afraid he would find someone else to do it or would be very upset with me. I finally got fed up with the sex act and told him that I wasn't going to ever do it again and that If he didn't like it I would leave. I did give in since I said that, but I don't anymore. I have had to really stand my ground before he would stop pressuring me about it. He does still mention it and I say No.

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Bennu

I think that the problem is that these men are so self centered that they are incapable of intimacy. Sex for them isn't an act of intimacy like we want it to be. They are scared and turned off by intimacy so if we do things to promote intimacy for the kind of sexual encounter that we want, they become impudent. They want to try kinky things because they have trouble with arousal especially as they age because of the lack of intimacy which they can't feel. All men are not like this. Abusers are like this.

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hoping

Bennu, Thank You

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