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Deja Vu

He is at it again

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Deja Vu

So things have been good.  Let's call him Mister.  He has been going through a tough time at work.  There is a re-organization.  He survived it, thankfully.  He was good.  No stress, no lashing out.  Today he came home and there was another conference call about the reorganization.  Uh oh.  He did not seem too upset by it.  When he came in, he brought home some beer.  Ok, I said shoot, I should have asked you to pick some up for me (I drink something different).  He immediately became visibly upset.  I said, no big, I didn't ask.  In his mind I said HE did something wrong.  I said I'll grab a glass of wine.  We sat down and  He talked briefly about the call and all was good.  We were going to make reubens for dinner.  He is a chef by trade.  I had a picture in my mind, and he had his.  His was waaaay to big for me, so I asked could he make it with less meat.  He got upset.  Fine, I guess I won't make the awesome sandwich......well, hon, I will never finish it and will have soggy leftovers tomorrow.  The rest sounds great, just make it with less and we can make another one tomorrow.  I upset him.  Then I said I would put in some frozen fries......blech.  They are gross...........let's make fresh.  Ok, aren't they a lot of work, though (I am finishing grad school and crazy busy and feeling stressed............he has been helping a LOT, so I appreciate that).  He said, why,do we have someplace we need to be?  No, you're right.  Now he is really upset.  I blew up his whole plan.  He went out for a smoke after saying he will do the sandwiches and do what I want for potatoes and I said I'll cut up potatoes for fries and I got "whatever'".  He came back and he said I was going to do that.  But you told me do what I want.  Now I am fighting in his mind. Then I was cutting the potatoes wrong.  Next thing I know it is a full blown, I didn't want what he wanted so much to make for me and don't I know he had a terrible week.  I tried every way to say listen, I just didn't want as much meat and make the fries any way you want.  Each time it started how this is silly over sandwiches and ended with what a terrible person I am to not just have gone along.  I tried saying sorry, I am here for you.  No go. He went off on how the meat was cut too thick.  I said I asked for it thin..........even that way my fault.  I should have made sure.  I tried saying it was all a misunderstanding and how about we just call in pizza or Chinese and start again tomorrow.  He didn't want that.  he would just eat ramen.  Ended up how he did NOTHING wrong.  I was starting with him (over and over I was BLAMING him for beer, no matter how many times I said I failed to ask him to pick it up and it is my fault) and he wanted nothing to do with me.  I am so stressed and disheartened.  I had a couple of glasses of wine and am going to bed,. This is a man whose last wife will not make eye contact in court and claims to be afraid of him.  Over the past 8 months he said he wanted to "knock my teeth in" then tonight made a comment, after going in circles (well then you us make dinner while I sit here.then....and  when I say ok, are you want a reuben then, says I told you I am having ramen) says well instead of saying I will stare into space to you want me to say I will hit you, or throw things??? WTH??  I don't know what to make of him any more.  He was so loving.  Is he yet another abuser?  A man who does not know how to handle his feelings?  I am so confused.  

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Fluffyflea

Yes he is an abuser and abusers how to handle anything particularly another persons needs.

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Fluffyflea

Don't know how, sorry

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Bennu

Sorry, sounds like an abuser. I got myself involved with one for a short time too. I still don't think it's us. I think that at our age, a large proportion of the unmarried fall into that category. The nice ones don't get divorced. I hope to get better at spotting them as time goes on so that I don't waste too much time on them.

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Quaddie

Sounds abusive. When it seems like nothing you do is right and it all feels "crazy," that's a strong sign of an abusive relationship.

The same scenario in our house would have gone totally differently. Of course, my bf's not a chef - and I understand chefy-types can have big egos and be controlling because it's like "their art" and it's very important to them. But that does not excuse or make okay what happened.

So anyway, in my house - and we do make sandwiches together, or subs - if I'm making it for him, I'd want to make sure that the right amount of meat for him is on  his.  And he does the same for me. We ask each other if that's okay, or if he wants more or less. 

It's normal for different people to want the proportions of stuff on their sandwiches to be different. I too don't like a ton of meat on them, and don't like them stacked high with stuff. I can't eat it that way, and they don't even taste good to me that way. 

When we are fixing things for each other we check in and ask to make sure we are giving each other what we want. And - my bf's not even the most considerate of people (although I think he tries). But he understands that food is very personal.

IT SHOULD NOT BE A BATTLE, OR CAUSE A FIGHT, FOR YOU TO EXPRESS YOUR PREFERENCES ABOUT SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS A SANDWICH.

You have a right to have personal preferences. You didn't do anything wrong - it was all his tantrum, that the proportion wasn't to your liking. He can't conceive that it's not that you're criticizing him, but that you just like things different.

Abuser types can't really respect the differences between people. Your wanting something different from what he  thinks you should want, is like a personal affront to him. Because you're an extension of him. You should like what he thinks you like. You should want what he thinks you want.

The fries - well, I guess you could have said it seemed like a lot of work AND that you were feeling stressed. But he wouldn't have respected that, anyway. He decided he didn't like frozen fries - period, end of story. (And no, they're not  gross, sheesh...)   Your Mister discounting (with disgust) the frozen product option immediately, left zero room for any compromise or expression of your own needs.

In my house, when we're picking between fresh/frozen, easy/cooking, etc., even my bf tries to take into account how tired or stressed *I* am and whether I want to go to the extra effort. Same thing - if it's him, I wouldn't expect him to go to extra effort cooking if he didn't feel like it. He can say he doesn't feel like doing it, and that's okay. I can say, "Nah, I don't really feel like going to all that trouble - let's just do frozen" and that's okay.  And he'll ask me, "Are you sure you want to cook? You look kind of tired." And I can say yes or no.

AND - another thing - it sounds like your Mister discarded the frozen option, but then expected you  to go to all the extra work and time to make him the fresh. That's not cool! If he wanted fresh and you didn't feel like doing it, he should do it himself or accept the frozen (without complaining either verbally or nonverbally, lol). It's not your responsibility to bend and sway to his wishes, nor to cook what his majesty wants no matter how you feel. You have rights, too!

 

Then he had a tantrum and is just eating ramen and pouting, lol. See? A big baby. There was nothing wrong with reubens - one with slightly less meat, or thinner meat - and frozen (baked or fried) fries.

Oh and??? I happen to have seen the supply of gigantic pre-cut potato fries that Gordon Ramsey uses in one of his restaurants - for a very delicious fries appetizer that I've had. And GUESS WHAT?? THEY ARE FROZEN! Yup. I've seen them on many occasions. Frozen can be fine. 

Abusers process your expression of personal preferences as an "insult" to them. Or that you're just "wrong." It's how their operating systems work.

Now the beer - IF you knew he was going to pick up beer and forgot to ask him for your own brand, then you're right, it's on you. Although it's also considerate for him to apologize if he didn't ask - that happens - but not to get all upset about it. That's overreacting. However, IF he didn't tell you he was getting beer and didn't ask you if you wanted anything, then it is  on him. I make that distinction because I think when we're in abusive relationships, we tend to "take on" too much of the responsibility, and "own" things that are not ours to own. (Boundaries, boundaries.)

So if he didn't tell you he was picking up beer and didn't ask you, then it truly is on him. (Most people would just give a heartfelt apology for forgetting to ask you, and maybe even offer to go pick some up, and that's about it.) But to overreact and have a tantrum about it is a way to manipulate you. You see, then he's training you not to ever bring up any possible "wrong" thing he ever does - or else you will suffer the negative consequences of not only his anger, but also the guilt from his being so very upset. 

 

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whitebutterfly11

What has already been posted on this thread is wonderful counsel and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

As I read your post and it progressed from an issue about beer to sandwiches to fries, what I kept thinking was that no matter what you said or did in this situation, he was already planning on attacking you. He came home angry, needed a punchbag, and like the typical abuser he is, had it in his mind to take it all out on you to make himself feel better. It was a point of no return for him, like he had already made up his mind and there was no talking around it--he simply needed something (a tiny irrelevant thing, in this case, which is how it is in most abusive cases) to jumpstart it all, then he could start his tirade of blaming and attacking and purging himself of whatever insecurities and frustrations had built up in him. It wasn't YOU. You were NOT at fault. He had already preprogrammed himself to explode, which is what abusers use their significant others for. It's objectifying, demeaning, disabling, and wrong. 

I'm sorry you were the target of his intolerable behavior. 

This is abuse, and this is what it looks like.

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Darci

Quaddie said.  ....  Your wanting something different from what he  thinks you should want, is like a personal affront to him.

yeah, this.  Mine does the same thing, that confusing mind warping go nowhere no compromise conversation.

he wants this, you want that, when you don’t agree, then he doesn’t want anything and the whole deal is off.  Yep, been there many times.

mine wanted to go to a car thing, I didn’t but said I would, he said you need to wear sneakers not sandals, I said sandals would be fine, he said nope I said yes sandals, he said no for safety it needs to be shoes. So I said ok I will go change.  Nope he now no longer wanted to go and it was all my fault he didn’t go.  I could NOT get him to just accept that I;would change my shoes and we could still go.  He was mad I didn’t just immediately do what he wanted without question, and accept his way totally.  I get it.  No advice, just saying I think it’s abusive and mean what he did and there is absolutely nothing wrong with you wanting a sandwich with less meat, while he still has lots of meat on his.

its just a total confusing mind screwing conversation that you    Can.   Not    Win   

hugs

darci

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AZ-home

Your shoe story reminds me if a shoe story

Him: Are you ready to go?

Me: Yep. Let me get my shoes 

I wasn’t allowed to leave shoes beside the door, so  I walk to the bedroom, get my shoes and come back and he is gone. Car and all. So I called him on the cell and I asked him to come back for me. He can’t be far!

He said: No. you can ride with our son. 

Me: But he’s in the shower and I’m ready

Him: Too bad

We were going to see relatives and this was to make himself look better than me, cause he was on time and I arrived late. 

Argh!!!!!!

How R.U.D.E to leave me!!!!!! I felt SO worthless right then  

Abusers suck.

 

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Quaddie

OMG AZ, that's a horrible thing to do. Treating you like you're worthless and abandoning you. That's so horrible :(.  
 

It's their way - or they punish you. Period.

Control. Abuse is about control. 

(If that happened to me, I'd be sore put not to tell the other people there *why* he got there earlier. "He left while I was getting my shoes." Nice guy, huh? Azzh0le.)

 

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Bennu

They constantly punish you for reasons you are unaware of.

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Sickandtired

OMG. A fight this ridiculous about sandwiches and french fries. It is so familiar. And pouting when he doesn't get your immediate agreement.

It's so crazy making.

My ex and I got in a fight about something just as insignificant once - we were on vacation staying with his family with our two young daughters (3 and 18 months at the time). The fight was about something stupid - so dumb I don't even remember what it was about. I was trying to just blow it off since it was so stupid. We had planned on going into town (a very sweet little town where we had lived a few years before) to go shopping with the girls one sunday morning. He was still irritated over the fight, but pretended to be normal around his family when we left their house. When we got to town, he pulled over, and said "Get out. Take the baby, I'll take (3 year old) and I'll pick you up when we are done. I don't want to be around you right now." I was totally stunned. He just drove me out there away from the nice house we were staying at, purposely to just leave me there. WITH OUR BABY. So I got out, put the baby in her sling, and just started walking. I couldn't believe he had done it, didn't know when he'd be "done" and didn't have a plan of where to go. Shops weren't open yet, I"d already had breakfast, and I had a BABY strapped to me. So I walked to a park about a mile away, sat down, and held the baby while she napped. He finally called, asked where I was, and when I told him he said "why the hell would you go there? Trying to make this seem as dramatic as possible? You should have just gone to a coffee shop. What's wrong with you?"

 

They crave control and drama, and to keep you reeling and swirling in a world of no logic, just hurt and confusion. It's most definitely abuse, and after 17 years of marriage to my ex, I divorced him in September. I am still dealing with the emotional and psychological aftermath.

 

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Quaddie

Abandoning you like that is a form of physical abuse. :(

I'm sorry. That's scary and awful. I'm glad you separated from him. It's going to take a long time to work through everything.

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Deja Vu

Thank you all for your thoughts.  I am feeling lately like I am in my first marriage.  I know some of your names and you would probably recognize my old name.....Too Long.  I am heartbroken with what I am going through.  When I met Mister he was the most laid back man I had ever known.  Always a smile, always affectionate, I was his angel that fell from the sky and he was the luckiest man on earth.. ...pfft.  Not lately.  I saw signs before the marriage, but they were small and I convinced myself I was overreacting.  He CAN apologize, and at that point, always would.  In fact, he would tell me what a jerk he was and how understanding I was.  He still apologizes, but more and more often he will say HE did nothing wrong (he still thinks he did nothing wrong with the incident above).  He has gotten to a point where he criticizes every little thing. We have had several more fights since the one above and after another one just as stupid as the one above I lost it on him after he told me I was sh*tting on his ideas because I said I needed to check with our daughter and future husband if they liked what he suggested eating.  He even had the arrogance to say that that is what he is making and he will expand their horizons (if they wanted it or not).  I told him how he criticizes everything, I cannot have an opinion and I am walking on eggshells.  He tried his favorite game that made me lose it............you are thinking of your ex and putting it on me....and he brought up his name.  He knows that is a huge thing for me. He said I don't like him any more.  I said he sure didn't seem to like me.  I finally told him everything I was feeling.  he CANNOT take criticism.  That is where he starts to twist everything that happened.  Just like my ex.  The gaslighting begins......but I know it is not me.  I suffered it before and my daughter called it out.  She told me that it is not me.....that he is lying.  And it is happening again.

Truth is, Mister suffers from very bad anxiety. He has told me he also feels OCD (probably from the anxiety).....when things do not go the way he pictures them, it brings out the anxiety.  And he lashes out. I think he cannot be criticized or this all comes out.  It is not a free pass.  I feel for him, but I cannot be his target.  I wish he could just be WRONG sometimes.  it is ok to mess up.  Ooopsy woopsy.  Sorry babe..  Over and done.  But instead when he hurts me now, instead of saying I was being a jerk, sorry, most of the time he defends and HAS to be right....even if he has to twist it all around.  And even if I say this is silly, it means nothing, let's just drop it, he will stop for a minute but then come back to start again.......then tells me that I won't drop it.  It is crazymaking at it's best. 

I still love him.  I see a therapist who says it is obvious that he loves me, but that until HE gets help, things will not get better.  He covers up his anxiety with habits....smoking (he quit, but as soon as things get stressful he starts again).....alcohol.  I had said a year or so ago he had the issue while on the drugs, but even after, he will take shots behind my back when he is stressed (he doesn't know I am aware of it).......he needs something to take the edge off....the therapist pointed it out to me.  He will not try prescription drugs since the last bad experience and I cannot convince his to a counselor together and suggesting he see one alone would be a disaster.  When he is kind he is so wonderful.....and then it starts again.  I know it is a cycle.  But I am still at the point of wanting to fix it.  It is still unimaginable to me.  He was such an amazing man the first year.  When we started living together we had our moments......I saw some red flags but they were few and far between.  Once we bought a house together, about a year and a half ago is when it started getting frequent.  I am still fighting against the idea that I married another abuser.  I can't have been that blind.  Thanks for being a safe place to work all of this through.

 

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percolate
2 hours ago, Deja Vu said:

..I saw some red flags but they were few and far between.  Once we bought a house together, about a year and a half ago is when it started getting frequent.  I am still fighting against the idea that I married another abuser.  I can't have been that blind.  

 

They don't tend to ramp up the abuse until they've got you completely hooked e.g., married and buying a house together.  They're smart enough to hide their true feelings when it's easy for you to leave e.g., when you're dating. And they know that you would leave if they were abusive. 

In terms of marrying a second abuser-it's happened to many of us.  It took me three marriages to figure out what was going on and deal with the issues that made me blind to early red flags.  Life has been so much better since I got counseling approximately 15 years ago and ended the pattern of being attracted to abusers. 

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Appletree

Oh this is all so recognisable. He will have in his mind an idea of how things should go and if people don't react exactly how he believes they should react then everything is ruined - by the other people of course. He also abandons me with almost predictable regularity (both in home town and places we've never been - and outside home town he often doesn't take a mobile phone so there's no way to contact him). And of course it's apparently my job to stop him getting more angry by shutting up and not responding to anything that's happening. So sick of it. 

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