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6245

Text message red flags?

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Quaddie

LOL yeah, btdt with the jealous controllers <shudder>

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Fluffyflea

Staying single is working for me. Just don't need the hassle.

I did buy a membership on e Harmony before my son died and I couldn't even get past the pictures I'd find everything wrong.

Now I'm in mourning and very vulnerable so not the time anyways.

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6245

I do not want to remain single.  But I do want a healthy relationship.  Key word healthy.

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Fluffyflea

Well this one wouldn't be.

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percolate
14 hours ago, 6245 said:

I am meeting most of them online.  The two or three men I have gone out with from "IRL" have honestly, not been much better.  I am plenty active and do plenty of things but most of the time there aren't single men in my age bracket there, or there aren't men there at all.

There's nothing wrong with meeting someone online.  I'm very familiar with not meeting men in real life (my profession is female dominated and I'm older).  There are just some places and people who you are unlikely to meet in any other way. I met the man I now live with online 8.5 years ago.  We lived in adjoining states, with demanding careers, older teens in the household (at least part of the time), and would never have met in real life.  We've been living together for about 1.5 years and it's worked out well. 

 I met some interesting men online and dated  a number of them (at least once).  But you have to screen them carefully-I wrote my profile to screen out the jerks and I found that after I'd recovered from the abuse (I also had counseling), I no longer attracted jerks.  And I no longer questioned whether I was being too picky (as I've been accused of being).  I realized that being picky with whom I messaged or dated was to my advantage. 

I learned a lot during the 5-6 years that I dated sporadically and meeting a variety of men (none of whom were creeps) really taught me important lessons about what interested me, what I valued, and gave me confidence that I really could develop a good relationship with a healthy man. 

 

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6245

Alright girls, I wanted to update this. 

I went out with this guy a few more times but had mostly lost interest after one really awkward date and a couple of these random comments.  I guess I was trying to see if it really was a poor match, or not, and if my gut feeling about him was right.  I don't trust it entirely yet.  Last week we had had a frank discussion about 'where things were.'  He brought it up because he said, "I sometimes get to the point where I just can't take it anymore, and I don't know that I can't take it until I wake up and realize I can't take it" regarding his level of frustration in things and he 'didn't think it would be fair to me' to not be honest about his feelings.  (General things, I'm assuming, but looking back on it): was this a manipulation?  To try and get me to be 'scared' to accept his offer of a relationship? 

I had told him twice in the past that we were not exclusive, but this time, he asked again if we were.   I told him I had been out with other guys.  He didn't say he was upset with it, but I could tell it bothered him.  Why he assumed we were, I have no idea.  I told him that to me being exclusive IS a relationship, there isn't a difference.  We weren't in a relationship yet, so I was dating.  We kept talking that night and actually had, what I thought, was a more lighthearted date.  Actually, it was the first fun date in awhile because there was no wierd pressure of 'what things were.'  Keep in mind this man had told me he loved me, but he also once said he said so in hopes that I would 'feel secure.'  I am assuming he wanted me to feel secure enough to say it back.  I had not said it back because I wasn't in love yet, which I told him frankly.  He said, "you just don't like me enough" and I was thinking, he wasn't really giving me the space to like him!  Every date was almost inevitably pressured with some form of 'what are we'.  At the start of this past date, he said, "I was so afraid you were going to fire me."  Meaning that I would dump him.

Lo and behold.  He was so afraid I would 'fire him' that tonight he sent me an email tonight saying that he didn't feel we were on the same page and had no intentions to continue to pursue me.  At the very end he put "so long and thanks for all the fish."  WTF does that mean?!?  And an email?  Really?  So in love he just couldn't take it anymore?  I get the vague feeling he put me on a pedestal, assuming things I didn't feel or say. 

WTH?  Did I just dodge a bullet?  Are the sum of these things very manipulative?  I didn't just lose a good man, did I?  

 

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Quaddie

Oh heck yes, you definitely dodged a HUGE bullet.

Nothing about this seemed remotely healthy.

And he told you he loved you?? And you weren't even in a relationship?  HUGE red flag. Then he even admitted he did it in order to manipulate you.

His saying things like that you just don't like him enough is just weird and guilt-trippy manipulative, too.

Imo, this had no earmarks of being able to be a healthy or normal relationship. He shouldn't be pressuring you about trying to define the relationship, either. Way overwrought way too soon, red flag red flag.

Heck no, you did not just lose a "good" guy. Bad fit for you at the very least, but imo definitely manipulative, unhealthy and bound to just keep getting worse. He was trying to rope you in like controllers do, that's why all the pressure and guilt-tripping. Also he just makes me feel squicky, the way he acted. Yuck.

Remember that there doesn't need to be anything "wrong" for something to just not be a good fit for you, either. You can choose not to be with someone just because of any reason at all. If they make you feel uncomfortable about anything, then that's plenty. You owe them nothing - you get to choose.

Be aware this one may try to Hoover you back. Don't fall for it. Nothing would be better. He's already clearly shown his true colors, and they don't go with who you are.

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6245
39 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

Oh heck yes, you definitely dodged a HUGE bullet.

Nothing about this seemed remotely healthy.

And he told you he loved you?? And you weren't even in a relationship?  HUGE red flag. Then he even admitted he did it in order to manipulate you.

His saying things like that you just don't like him enough is just weird and guilt-trippy manipulative, too.

Imo, this had no earmarks of being able to be a healthy or normal relationship. He shouldn't be pressuring you about trying to define the relationship, either. Way overwrought way too soon, red flag red flag.

Heck no, you did not just lose a "good" guy. Bad fit for you at the very least, but imo definitely manipulative, unhealthy and bound to just keep getting worse. He was trying to rope you in like controllers do, that's why all the pressure and guilt-tripping. Also he just makes me feel squicky, the way he acted. Yuck.

Remember that there doesn't need to be anything "wrong" for something to just not be a good fit for you, either. You can choose not to be with someone just because of any reason at all. If they make you feel uncomfortable about anything, then that's plenty. You owe them nothing - you get to choose.

Be aware this one may try to Hoover you back. Don't fall for it. Nothing would be better. He's already clearly shown his true colors, and they don't go with who you are.

Yes, he told me he loved me.  I said thank you.  The first time I didn’t think it was that wierd, as he was expressing his feelings.  But he did it many times thereafter, despite the fact that I never said it.  IMO, he should have waited for me to say it before saying it again, maybe I am wrong about that but it seems crazy to keep saying it when I kept saying “thank you.”

He also said in his break up email that it had been “frustrating already” and would only continue to get moreso until it was “insurmountably frustrating”.  

Also. Who sends a break up email to someone they “love”?  Isn’t that a tad bit cold?

He also once put in an email to me that he was “glad to know I had missed him too” despite the fact that I didn’t tell him that.  

Lastly, he told me an ex girlfriend had referred to him as a “Pharisee”.  Sounds like I am starting to see why!

And super lastly—“thanks for all the fish?”  What does that even mean in this context?

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AZ-home

I experienced the same "I love you" scenerio with a guy I was dating. I even said "thank you" the first time. AAAAND the second time. Why would you say it again when I'm not reciprocating? Seems very forward or forceful to me. Finally when a new guy asked me out I thought...I THINK I'm in a relationship! I need to iron this out. I felt as if I had trip and stumbled myself into a committed relationship without ever having that conversation. 

I think you dodged a bullet. He may not be overtly abusive, but he definitely has manipulative tendencies that may get worse over time. Email is nothing more than him being cowardly. I have NO idea what "thanks for all the fish" means, except that maybe he's trying to say because he's no longer in a relationship, he now has all the fish in the sea. (?) :wacko:

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6245
11 hours ago, AZ-home said:

I experienced the same "I love you" scenerio with a guy I was dating. I even said "thank you" the first time. AAAAND the second time. Why would you say it again when I'm not reciprocating? Seems very forward or forceful to me. Finally when a new guy asked me out I thought...I THINK I'm in a relationship! I need to iron this out. I felt as if I had trip and stumbled myself into a committed relationship without ever having that conversation. 

I think you dodged a bullet. He may not be overtly abusive, but he definitely has manipulative tendencies that may get worse over time. Email is nothing more than him being cowardly. I have NO idea what "thanks for all the fish" means, except that maybe he's trying to say because he's no longer in a relationship, he now has all the fish in the sea. (?) :wacko:

It is from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galasy.  But I really don’t get it.  It seems like such a flippant, strange thing to say and in this context, why say it?  IMO not something you say if you are “in love” or losing someone who keant something to you.  From Wikipedia, it says, “The phrase has since been adopted by some science fiction fans as a humorous way to say "goodbye" and a song of the same name was featured in the 2005 film adaptation of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy”  What on earth?  Is he actually trying to be funny at the end of a “breakup email”?

It was also off how he had gone about asking about exclusivity (again).  He had mentioned it in an email, said we hadn’t “sorted it out” as far as if we were, and I had not had a chance to respond to the rmail yet.  I was thinking about what I wanted to say.  In the email he said he had been exclusive to me.  Which I already knew.  But I never told him I expected him to be; I told him on the first or second date that I waa dating because he asked.  Then I told him again later on when he asked.  So on the date he looks at me and he is like, “We are exclusive...right?”

It felt strange, like he expected a certain answer.  I of course said no.  Then I also brought up my concerns about some of the sexual innuendos and my concern that he was overly accomodating and was he being himself?  And then a week later, I get the “breakup email” without mentioning either of those concerns.  He apologized lamely for the innuendos at dinner, but mentioned neither of my concerns.  Guess he decided Not to be “accomodating” anymore!

also—should I even respond to the email?  He asked no questions or gave any indication that he wanted my POV.  I am not really upset about it.  But it is LAME he did it over email.  Really, really lame.  And it irritated me and I am nit sure I really want to respond af this point but that also feels rude.

 

edit:  I think I will tell him I will be sure to make jambalaya with all that fish!!  😂

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Quaddie

Nope, don't respond. There's no need. It's not rude to not-respond. It just keeps you engaged and connected to him. AND it gives him an opportunity to hoover, if he is so inclined. 

You get to do what you want and what protects you best. I'm not sure why it feels rude to leave it alone without responding, but honestly there's no obligation and I'd let it alone.

Nothing about this was how a healthy relationship would begin, so count your luck that you missed out on this "gem."

 

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6245
14 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

Nope, don't respond. There's no need. It's not rude to not-respond. It just keeps you engaged and connected to him. AND it gives him an opportunity to hoover, if he is so inclined. 

You get to do what you want and what protects you best. I'm not sure why it feels rude to leave it alone without responding, but honestly there's no obligation and I'd let it alone.

Nothing about this was how a healthy relationship would begin, so count your luck that you missed out on this "gem."

 

Yeah, true.  I already took him out of my phone.  Again, I'm not upset he ended it.  I was leaning that way anyway.  But the way he did it is so rude and flippant, it shows me who he really is in five seconds.  Not a guy I want to be involved with.  What a strange dude.  I am so tempted to say about the jamabalaya.  HAHAHA.

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6245

Edit:  I did reply, I just sent a short note that said, "Thanks for your thoughts.  I don't understand the fish reference.  Best of luck and take care." 

 

I get the feeling he might have been trying to bait me into arguing the end of the relationship with him, so I Wanted him to know I am not going to do that.  As far as I'm concerned he and I are done.  Anyone who ends something that way, that abruptly over email, because I am not exclusive to him without actually expressing that (because that is why, I know from his reaction) and who dragged out the last date three hours beyond the conversation about what we were....good riddance.

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6245

And i forgot—two weeks ago he asked if we should go to “relationship counseling” (presumably because things were not where he thought they should be) — but we weren’t yet in a “relationship.”  Now I see this as the manipulation again—he wanted to get what he wanted, which was a relationship.  Yikes.  Big time sBullet dodged.

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Quaddie

Wow. That's a really out-of-bounds thing for him to have suggested at that stage of things. Yes, it was manipulative and wrong. Trying to get you into a relationship so that he could "lock you in" and you'd become his object. Big bullet dodged.

 

ETA: Oh yeah, also shows the high level of disrespect he had toward you. He didn't take anything you said as valid. He didn't respect your perspective - or you - at all. Just kept trying to force things into going his way.

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6245
40 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

Wow. That's a really out-of-bounds thing for him to have suggested at that stage of things. Yes, it was manipulative and wrong. Trying to get you into a relationship so that he could "lock you in" and you'd become his object. Big bullet dodged.

 

ETA: Oh yeah, also shows the high level of disrespect he had toward you. He didn't take anything you said as valid. He didn't respect your perspective - or you - at all. Just kept trying to force things into going his way.

Yes, exactly what I thought.  He would sometimes put words into my mouth or assume things I didn’t say.

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Vanilli
On 6/3/2018 at 9:43 AM, 6245 said:

It is from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galasy.  But I really don’t get it.  It seems like such a flippant, strange thing to say and in this context, why say it?  IMO not something you say if you are “in love” or losing someone who keant something to you.  From Wikipedia, it says, “The phrase has since been adopted by some science fiction fans as a humorous way to say "goodbye" and a song of the same name was featured in the 2005 film adaptation of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy”  What on earth?  Is he actually trying to be funny at the end of a “breakup email”?

It was also off how he had gone about asking about exclusivity (again).  He had mentioned it in an email, said we hadn’t “sorted it out” as far as if we were, and I had not had a chance to respond to the rmail yet.  I was thinking about what I wanted to say.  In the email he said he had been exclusive to me.  Which I already knew.  But I never told him I expected him to be; I told him on the first or second date that I waa dating because he asked.  Then I told him again later on when he asked.  So on the date he looks at me and he is like, “We are exclusive...right?”

It felt strange, like he expected a certain answer.  I of course said no.  Then I also brought up my concerns about some of the sexual innuendos and my concern that he was overly accomodating and was he being himself?  And then a week later, I get the “breakup email” without mentioning either of those concerns.  He apologized lamely for the innuendos at dinner, but mentioned neither of my concerns.  Guess he decided Not to be “accomodating” anymore!

also—should I even respond to the email?  He asked no questions or gave any indication that he wanted my POV.  I am not really upset about it.  But it is LAME he did it over email.  Really, really lame.  And it irritated me and I am nit sure I really want to respond af this point but that also feels rude.

 

edit:  I think I will tell him I will be sure to make jambalaya with all that fish!!  😂

Haha, what a nut job. Of course he's not in love - look at actions not words. That fish comment is so weird! He is totally lame :) and I wouldn't reply either! And if someone gives you an ick feeling or makes you uncomfortable then TRUST that. Something I trust is how someone makes me feel IN MY BODY. I compare men I meet to how they make me feel - gut feeling, in the stomach, do they make me feel warm and open in my heart space? If I have anything in my body that reads a 'no' then I listen. If it's a lot of emotional excitement, but something in my body is saying 'danger', I now listen - I didn't listen to this once and went on a few dates and this awful man turned out to be a male right's activists - even though he seemed really sweet and kind and said he agreed with me about how women were abused a lot and it was terrible. Then on like our 5th day, this all started to unravel and he told me that men got abused too sexually and referred to how his ex girlfriend put her arm around his waist in a club the night they met - well it's hardly bloody Harvey Weinstein level is it? And then he said that no didn't always mean no when it came to consent (what?!) - when on his dating profile, it said 'no always means no period' - so he just effectively lied about it... We then got in a massive row about it and I was annoyed that he'd lied to me a few dates earlier, he then proceeded to call me a 'stupid slut' (wow, the depts on misogyny!! Not even remotely true - feels as though he just REALLY hated women). The night I met him, something in my body read 'off' or don't go there, but there was something exciting about him - I should have listened to my body! Your body has an innate wisdom, it reads situations faster than your mind can put the pieces together :). A good way to do it is by thinking about different people, people you love and feel safe with (an animal even if there isn't person) and then notice the sensations in your body - when you think about that person, what do you feel where? Good people, kind people tend to bring a feeling of openness and lightness to my stomach, I feel my body tension relax and my shoulders drop. Bad people tend to bring up either a 'cold' feeling in my stomach or a slight wall goes up - the openness is replaced by a strong feeling in the stomach - kind of like my body is saying 'no!'. Bring different people to mind and see how your body responds, then get more used to tapping into that in person with people you date :). 

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Vanilli
On 6/4/2018 at 1:12 PM, 6245 said:

And i forgot—two weeks ago he asked if we should go to “relationship counseling” (presumably because things were not where he thought they should be) — but we weren’t yet in a “relationship.”  Now I see this as the manipulation again—he wanted to get what he wanted, which was a relationship.  Yikes.  Big time sBullet dodged.

Oh my god - he is SCARY!! That is SO SO WEIRD! 

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6245
2 hours ago, Vanilli said:

Haha, what a nut job. Of course he's not in love - look at actions not words. That fish comment is so weird! He is totally lame :) and I wouldn't reply either! And if someone gives you an ick feeling or makes you uncomfortable then TRUST that. Something I trust is how someone makes me feel IN MY BODY. I compare men I meet to how they make me feel - gut feeling, in the stomach, do they make me feel warm and open in my heart space? If I have anything in my body that reads a 'no' then I listen. If it's a lot of emotional excitement, but something in my body is saying 'danger', I now listen - I didn't listen to this once and went on a few dates and this awful man turned out to be a male right's activists - even though he seemed really sweet and kind and said he agreed with me about how women were abused a lot and it was terrible. Then on like our 5th day, this all started to unravel and he told me that men got abused too sexually and referred to how his ex girlfriend put her arm around his waist in a club the night they met - well it's hardly bloody Harvey Weinstein level is it? And then he said that no didn't always mean no when it came to consent (what?!) - when on his dating profile, it said 'no always means no period' - so he just effectively lied about it... We then got in a massive row about it and I was annoyed that he'd lied to me a few dates earlier, he then proceeded to call me a 'stupid slut' (wow, the depts on misogyny!! Not even remotely true - feels as though he just REALLY hated women). The night I met him, something in my body read 'off' or don't go there, but there was something exciting about him - I should have listened to my body! Your body has an innate wisdom, it reads situations faster than your mind can put the pieces together :). A good way to do it is by thinking about different people, people you love and feel safe with (an animal even if there isn't person) and then notice the sensations in your body - when you think about that person, what do you feel where? Good people, kind people tend to bring a feeling of openness and lightness to my stomach, I feel my body tension relax and my shoulders drop. Bad people tend to bring up either a 'cold' feeling in my stomach or a slight wall goes up - the openness is replaced by a strong feeling in the stomach - kind of like my body is saying 'no!'. Bring different people to mind and see how your body responds, then get more used to tapping into that in person with people you date :). 

This is a great idea, thanks!  I didn’t feel unsafe around him or anything but things did always feel awkward amd strained.  One time he hugged me for like thirty minutes, standing in my kitchen, and it was incredibly awkward.  I was really uncomfortable.  Another time he was absolutely actually convinced he was going to hell.  He had anxiety pretty badly and said he had, the whole week, felt convinced that for some reason he was going to go to hell and he sincerely thought this.  He hugged me as if he was hanging on for dear life. It was also uncomfortable.

He just seemed to be clueless about how to date.  Not to mention, one time he brought up the income disparity between us on one of the last dates, he only ever paid for two dates (both were under $20) and we always went dutch.  I didn’tt mind but one date he said, “I didn’t realize there was such an income disparity between us.  (He made a lot of money; I am a teacher).  I am wondering if I should do more, or pay more often, but I figure you like being independent and self sufficient and don’t want to make you feel you aren’t.”  Or something.  It was just...super uncomfortable. And so, so wierd!

You are so right.  Actions, not words. 

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Vanilli
2 hours ago, 6245 said:

This is a great idea, thanks!  I didn’t feel unsafe around him or anything but things did always feel awkward amd strained.  One time he hugged me for like thirty minutes, standing in my kitchen, and it was incredibly awkward.  I was really uncomfortable.  Another time he was absolutely actually convinced he was going to hell.  He had anxiety pretty badly and said he had, the whole week, felt convinced that for some reason he was going to go to hell and he sincerely thought this.  He hugged me as if he was hanging on for dear life. It was also uncomfortable.

He just seemed to be clueless about how to date.  Not to mention, one time he brought up the income disparity between us on one of the last dates, he only ever paid for two dates (both were under $20) and we always went dutch.  I didn’tt mind but one date he said, “I didn’t realize there was such an income disparity between us.  (He made a lot of money; I am a teacher).  I am wondering if I should do more, or pay more often, but I figure you like being independent and self sufficient and don’t want to make you feel you aren’t.”  Or something.  It was just...super uncomfortable. And so, so wierd!

You are so right.  Actions, not words. 

Ugh how sounds awful! He  does sound similar  to my ex. In another post, Quaddie pointed out that this kind of manipulative behaviour IS abuse. Like even if someone isn't cruel if they do things with no regards to your feelings, wants, or needs then that's pretty gross and abusive. 

 

Ugh, sorry about the hug thing that's so uncomfortable. Definitely easier to read how you feel about someone when they try physical contact. 

 

He sounds really unhealthy and like he put loads of his own stuff on you which is super uncomfortable and inappropriate - you are your own woman, not his bloody mom! 

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6245
48 minutes ago, Vanilli said:

Ugh how sounds awful! He  does sound similar  to my ex. In another post, Quaddie pointed out that this kind of manipulative behaviour IS abuse. Like even if someone isn't cruel if they do things with no regards to your feelings, wants, or needs then that's pretty gross and abusive. 

 

Ugh, sorry about the hug thing that's so uncomfortable. Definitely easier to read how you feel about someone when they try physical contact. 

 

He sounds really unhealthy and like he put loads of his own stuff on you which is super uncomfortable and inappropriate - you are your own woman, not his bloody mom! 

Yeah, I think he had too many issues with anxiety for it to work even if other things had been ok.  Coupled with the manipulation it was just too OTT.

The hug thing was just too wierd.  It was like he wanted to make a move, but didn’t, for whatever reason, so he just stood there awkwardly hugging me to no end.  

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