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Wileykit

Narcissistic Mother?

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Wileykit

I haven't been on in awhile. Very exhausted and busy with work. I'm still driving truck which is really demanding and horrible winter roads, but it's good money to help recover finances from taking time off during the abuse. Things seemed to have turned around. The abuse stopped lately and we planned to marry this year. It all came back tonight. I'm wondering if anyones significant other has a narcissistic mother or maybe seeking clarification if this situation is normal.  The guy I'm still with (or maybe not after today) is 46 and since his dad passed away (2 years ago) he is at his mom's for supper 5pm sharp when he's off (because that's when they've always had supper as kids) she calls him probably 3 to 5 times a day. Has to know where he is constantly. He defends this as her concern and worry for her kids . Since I'm only home weekends with long distance driving, he has come out every other weekend. Since this started she has messaged me constantly while he's here. It's so excessive it takes my time from just being with him and I'm spending it all talking to her. Is this neediness? Not being able to have her son away from her? If she calls when we talk on the phone...which is all we have with me trucking and it being a long distance relationship already...he puts me on hold. When I'm with him she calls and won't stop calling until he answers. I'm wondering if this is a form of narcissism or something else? Is this normal? And does this possibly connect to his mental health and how he has anger issues and been narcisstic and abusive himself? Tonight we met because his accountant is doing my year end. I guess he told her and sounded annoyed having to meet me and she said "don't let her control you" as she has said in the past. She called all evening and texted. He accused me again of being controlling and running his life when I do nothing like this and am hardly in it.  We've been talking daily and things felt different. There has only been one issue I have and that is he has an ex lover whose family he gets together with every holiday (Christmas Easter etc) I've simple said since 5 years ago I won't spend every holiday with and ex Lover and her family ...he has agreed it's not healthy (he's also cheated on me..not with her) and I don't feel a Christian relationship should involve constant intimate get togethers with Ex lovers. This is where he calls me controlling. I guess I'm looking for input on that as well. Would most women accept this within a marriage? Its obviously a  concern for me when  he says  he wants  to  marry  me.  Am I out to lunch on my views? All sorts of messed up stuff here, I feel. Now he's said he didn't mean it when he constantly said he planned we marry this summer and that I'm crazy and stupid and obsessed with him. I have no clue where that comes from as it seemed we both just loved each other and were planning a lift together. Any input is appreciated. Feeling really blindsided and no idea why he's suddenly doing this. Everything has been better for months.

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Quaddie

Ewwwww

Not sure what the diagnosis might be, but it's definitely not normal.

For one thing, no, it's not normal for a mother to be expecting to be this connected with their grown child. And that's what it is - "connected."  Like almost  psychologically incestually connected. Ewwww.   

And for another, it's not normal for the adult child to continue this dynamic with his mother. And he's willingly doing it. He's at his mom's for supper, sheesh. He's a grown man. He should have his own supper.

(And his mom sounds like she has very serious issues that would not go away anyway - unless they're part of some sort of dementia or similar condition, but it doesn't sound like that's it. It sounds like more than just "narcissism" to me, something complicated and ....  not something healthy to insert yourself into.)

Another thing, yes, his ex-lover's family - nope, also not a normal connection. Ewww.

He's going to call you "controlling" because he's projecting everything he is and everything he knows onto you and using you as the target for everything that's messed-up about his own self and life.

And this?

Now he's said he didn't mean it when he constantly said he planned we marry this summer and that I'm crazy and stupid and obsessed with him.

Means = don't marry him.

He's doing this because he's abusive. Acting better for months is a tiny, little eetsy bitsy drop in the bucket of life. He's not going to change - look, he's not even really trying.   The constant phone calls with his mom are also totally abnormal. Any normal adult would have already claimed their space. He doesn't want to - or else he'd already have done it.

I personally don't think it matters why he's abusive - whether it's because of his mother, whether it's connected to his mother. All that matters, imo, is that he IS abusive, and that he's not a healthy partner for you.

Please please please please don't marry him. This is all pointing to a hugely bad, unhealthy dynamic that, imo, cannot possibly succeed.

And if he were someone who truly loved and cared about you, he'd NEVER say things like he said in the part I quoted above. This is not how you treat someone you love and care about, and it's not what you'd say to them. 

Yes, I mean yeah he's projecting his mother onto you, but that's not going to go away - and telling him he's doing it won't do anything to fix it. You cannot fix it. He won't believe anything you tell him, and he'd have to want to make himself better in order to do so. All the counseling in the world couldn't help him unless he decided, on his own, that he wanted to try to make himself and his relationships more healthy. 

This is the dynamic he's used to, and it's what you'll experience - and worse - if you marry him. He's 46. If he was going to "grow out of it," he'd have done it already.

Anyhoo - no, you're not wrong, but please don't mistake a blip of "better" for any sort of sign that this is going to be okay in the future. He is still the same person - he hasn't magically changed into a different person. That's not even possible to do over a few months' time, anyway. And all roads lead to bad news from what I'm seeing... :(

 

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Wileykit

Quaddie

Thank you for validating what I'm feeling. I have felt so messed up as we literally went from an apparent wonderful Valentine's evening (where mom messaged me again) to this.  Last night he also literally spit on my face. I can't even describe how disgusting an act that is and made me feel. He called me ugly, obsessed and actually answered his mom's call and ran me down to her right in front of me and called me crazy ...I have felt all along he is projecting his mother's controlling behavior and words and his own control issue. How can a grown man feel in control with a mother like that? There's so much more where he always goes into conspiracy theories when he gets like this. He called me crazy because I believed the world is round?? He recently decided it is flat. The government is turning Walmart into concentration camps. One time months ago he started talking to or with himself to me in the third person. I'm just having a very hard time at the moment with the apparent love bombing and this abrupt insanity. I have been sick to my stomach since it happened. I feel so messed up. I was doing so much better. I also agree that this mother son relationship looks incestuous. I thought I was past letting this make me feel I'm the crazy one and he did a bang up job accusing me last night. He even constantly called me the abuser.

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Quaddie
1 minute ago, Wileykit said:

I have felt so messed up as we literally went from an apparent wonderful Valentine's evening (where mom messaged me again) to this.  Last night he also literally spit on my face. I can't even describe how disgusting an act that is and made me feel.

He hawked on you?!? Deal breaker!!! Also, in some places, even considered an act of physical assault. It's an incredibly degrading, despicable act of contempt. (And contempt is an indicator that a relationship cannot last, anyway.) He's not worthy of your consideration or of your spending your valuable, precious time, life or caring with. No.

 

He called me ugly, obsessed and actually answered his mom's call and ran me down to her right in front of me and called me crazy ...

Also deal-breakers. I'm sorry, but imo this is not a person who loves or even cares two whits about you. He acts like he hates you. Ask yourself, why be with someone who acts like they hate you?  You deserve someone who actually cares about you. This is despicable behavior, deal-breakers all over the place, and unacceptable. This isn't a relationship. It's already broken - he's not in a relationship, he's just using you as a verbal punching bag. Nobody who cares, acts like this toward their partner.

I have felt all along he is projecting his mother's controlling behavior and words and his own control issue. How can a grown man feel in control with a mother like that?

Eh, remember that he is complicit in it, too. HE doesn't draw any boundaries. It doesn't matter if he's a grown man who can't feel in-control. He, himself, is not stepping away from her. He's getting something from it - what, we can't know. This isn't "just" a problem about her. A mature man doesn't need to feel "in-control." Yes, he should be in control of his own life - but he is not taking responsibility for his own life. Not at all. He's staying connected to her on purpose. It's a choice he's making. If he doesn't like it - what has he done to change it??? Nothing! He perpetuates it! He's complicit in that dynamic. And he's made it very, very clear that he chooses his mother above you. You mean nothing to him. He disparages you to her, in front of you. He chooses her above you, over and over again. He's in a relationship with his mother that has no room for anyone else. It's pretty sick, but it's not your responsibility to figure out or deal with. So yeah, although his mother has serious issues, he's not doing anything to help himself with it, either, so he's just as messed-up.

There's so much more where he always goes into conspiracy theories when he gets like this. He called me crazy because I believed the world is round?? He recently decided it is flat. The government is turning Walmart into concentration camps.

Okay, now we're getting into other territory entirely. In my unprofessional opinion, he's not sane, ok? (Although I've known malignant narcs who would insist some crazy stuff was true just to "make me wrong" and mess with me - this is different.)  He's going off a deep end and if you stay with him he'll take you along. This is so off-the-walls abnormal that it's screaming in neon flashing lights to get thee away from him, now!!!  Get away. Please. This is not going to go well for you. There's no chance at all (imo) that this is going to go well for you. There's nothing healthy, caring or good about being with him. Please, this will go bad quickly and... what, he'll decide you're the enemy and suddenly harm you?!?  Yes, that could happen!!!  Even if it doesn't, this is not rational behavior. He's not okay. He's not someone to waste even another breath on. Please.... 

 

One time months ago he started talking to or with himself to me in the third person. I'm just having a very hard time at the moment with the apparent love bombing and this abrupt insanity.

It means - walk away. You don't need to have a talk with him (in fact, don't!). Protect yourself. Walk away from this. The love bombing is a symptom. It doesn't mean he cares. It means he's afraid he's losing his object. But he doesn't care about you. He can't. 

You don't need to make an elaborate plan, or have a discussion with him - and you certainly don't need to "explain" yourself or your reasons to him. He wouldn't believe you, anyway. And you definitely don't need him to agree - or to "see your perspective." And he wouldn't, anyway. Please please please, this is not someone who is safe for you to be with, emotionally, intellectually or even - I believe - physically.

 

I have been sick to my stomach since it happened. I feel so messed up.

I bet! It's hard to see things go haywire and make no sense. Irrationality can make anyone struggle to make sense out of it. But it's him who's not making sense - and you don't need to. He's messed-up, and you can protect yourself by walking away. That's really the only answer, imo.

I was doing so much better. I also agree that this mother son relationship looks incestuous. I thought I was past letting this make me feel I'm the crazy one and he did a bang up job accusing me last night. He even constantly called me the abuser.

There's no counteracting that, there's no arguing with it, there's no "getting him to see." There's honestly nothing you can really do except just get out of this as quickly and quietly as you can. You deserve to be free of this drama and chaos. Otherwise, it'll just keep sucking you further into it and destroy you. :(

 

 

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Wileykit

He's actually already accused me twice of being the enemy. Once he accused the counselor of working with the government and I was hired by them as well, both to ruin his life and have him locked up. Last night he was ranting about the natives stealing property in the area (his mom called in the middle of supper to inform him) and that I was sent by them wasn't I?? What? It's so baffling and crazy I was dumbfounded into silence every time he spoke.  

What's really angered me lately is the constant victim status and blame. I was taking over his life and he took it back...I did things to cause his anxiety to get worse. Basically everything that has happened is my fault. All I recall doing for two or three days is trying to get him calm enough to explain what on earth was going on.  I'm still in utter shock and confusion.  And yes, he spit on me. At first he had this big wad and he stared at me almost threatening and awhile later he seriously spit on me. 

He hadn't brought up these conspiracies in ages so I thought it was gone. I thought all the abuse was gone. This shouldn't be shocking but it really is this time. You're absolutely right about him being just as sick as his mother. He defends it as "she's just a worrier" and maybe it's "a little excessive"? Seriously? 

I have a very hard time not believing I'm not the crazy one as he labels me. That is the hardest part for some reason. And deciphering what's reality but that much should be clear after this incident. Thank you for the insight. I think I mostly struggle to feel I'm not crazy and how I'm viewing this is validated. They do a great job making you doubt yourself.

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Quaddie

You need to get away from this. There is no good outcome from this, no reasoning with him, nothing. And he's  not safe for you to be around.

What he thinks and accuses you of - is the rantings of someone who isn't rational. He could call you a zebra, would you think "Maybe I'm a zebra?" I get it - I really do, I truly do understand gaslighting and how it impacts you. I've been subjected to enough of it myself. But this guy is not even a semblance of sane. That's how far he's carrying you down the path of his own problems. His own issues are blatant and have nothing whatsoever to do with you. So it's essential that you get away, get some distance, and work on your own mental boundaries.

Insanity like that doesn't just -poof- disappear. Abuse also does not just -poof- disappear. 

The only help you're going to find is in getting away from him. The further out your mental distance becomes, the more clearly you'll see that his insanity was spreading into you and causing chaos inside you - but that it wasn't really anything wrong with you. 

So... boundaries for you. Learn where the edges of your self-ness are. Distance and getting away from him is really your only course. Imo, trying to reason and stay in this "relationship" is not an option at all.

I think if you work on yourself you'll start to really understand what happened here and it'll help you stop doubting yourself. I think you'll find a lot of validation in learning about boundaries - I keep recommending the book "Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin" by Anne Katherine, but there are tons of others, too. 

Abusers are skilled at finding just enough of what "feels" like it might be "truth" to confuse us. They also repeat things and repetition tends to make things feel like they might have truth. If you're shaky on boundaries in the first place and can't necessarily easily identify "This is mine," and "Whoah man, this is your crap" - then abusers can make really good headway in confusing and messing with our heads. 

Please get away....   ASAP - right now if you can, and give yourself plenty of time and distance with NO CONTACT. None. Block his mom's number, don't let any of them contact you. They're a harem of crazy and they've sucked you right into it. 

He thinks the world is flat, that the government is turning Walmarts into concentration camps, and he's delusionally calling you the enemy and accused a counselor of working with the government and that you were a government operative sent to mess up his life and have him locked up.

Truly, Wily, that is not sane. He's delusional. 

***BUT*** That doesn't mean you have any responsibility whatsoever to "make" him get help, or get help for him.  Your only responsibility - and it's an imperative - is to get out. Get away from him.

Let me repeat this - because it's important:
He thinks the world is flat, that the government is turning Walmarts into concentration camps, and he's delusionally calling you the enemy and accused a counselor of working with the government and that you were a government operative sent to mess up his life and have him locked up.

This is not a safe person. He is dangerous! 

Whether you, yourself, have issues is entirely irrelevant right now. Right now what's important is that HE is not safe and that this is damaging you. 

Nobody's perfect! But your imperfections don't mean you deserve to be treated like this or that you are locked and bound to a delusional, not-sane, irrational person!

Please just get away, I'm concerned because abuse + delusions + already thinking you are the enemy = very dangerous, imo.

I'd also - after you get away - if you can, write down the things he's said about/to you, and approx. when and where. Document these things - like the stuff you said above. In case you need to get an RO or something in the future. 

:( 

Please - this is just plain flat-out not okay in any way, shape or form. :(

 

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Wileykit

I agree. I have no idea how I even swept those delusions under the rug. It's maybe so beyond comprehension I just brushed it off. It is absolutely insane. 

He has also (and I've said this before I think) threatened police and restraining orders on ME when I have done nothing to warrant such extreme measures. I think you may have told me this has happened to some ladies here. I believe it must be a control tactic. 

I have talked to some friends immediately for support and came here because I have always had a very hard time leaving for some reason. I think its because he has always given me just enough to believe he loves me. For months he's said this time is different. He loves me. He isn't messing with my head again. I've rationality and calmly asked if he was still having issues to tell me and it was always fine and all was getting better. That's why this one was such a shock to me. 

And I have to get past wanting to defend myself. It's so hard. He's lying to his family. Lying to friends. I know I need to not allow it to bother me so much but if I'm being honest it's just so hard to not tell them what's really been happening. No one would believe me anyway. I have to stop thinking it would make me feel better to tell them the truth. I only imagined his mother would defend him to the death.

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Quaddie

He's not rational or sane. Defending yourself to him is like defending yourself to ... a ... sloth. His lies - well, he's delusional, too. Sure, it's disturbing, but that can't keep you stuck to him. 

Let it bug you from a distance. It gets better with time - sometimes it takes a long time. But there's no way you can thrive or be happy or even be safe while you're with him.

People who lie about you and say mean things about you do not care about you. He doesn't see YOU. The "you" that you really are. He can't. So he's making things up about a fable that he created just because it somehow serves his irrational life. So it's not really "you" that he's talking about. 

It's a HUGE mess of chaos and insanity that you can't have any part of, in any way.

His mother? She's nuts, too. There's no way you can tell her "the truth" - or that she'll believe you, or even care. They're all part of this crazy dynamic.  There's nothing rational or sane or logical or healthy about any of it.

Her opinion of you "matters" to you because... why?   Now, I know - I do "get" about the cravings to tell the truth. To have a voice. To speak your truth. But telling them the truth cannot help you in any way, shape or form. It might "feel" better for a moment, but it won't actually help you - and you won't have gained anything at all. 

In the meantime, you're still at their crazy mercy and keeping yourself in a very unsafe situation that's only making YOU feel worse about yourself and messing with your life and health and stability.

Why is it hard to leave? Like, what keeps you from simply not being with him anymore? Do you live with him? What's the actual roadblock? Because this is really outrageous behavior on his part and his family...   

And, have you been in counseling just for yourself, by yourself, for your own self? 

Whether or not he gives you enough to make you feel like he loves you - is independent from the facts of his delusions, his treatment of you, this clear dynamic where he doesn't value you as a person at all. It's all separate. Like, even if a person says they love you, or makes you feel like they love you - if they were, say, robbing banks and cooking meth in your kitchen, would you stay? No, because that's too much risk to you, right? 

So I think it's really about, do you feel you deserve to not be treated like this? And even if you can't feel like you don't deserve this, doesn't mean you can't act as if you care about yourself enough to get yourself safe from this harmful chaos.

You don't have to feel strong. It's like taking a step off a curb. Take a step, cross the street. 

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Wileykit

I think it's so fresh that despite how awful it is I have quite gotten past the confusion of what the heck just happened. I haven't eaten much and my head is still in chaos. We are long distance. So there is nothing in the way. He does have all my year end tax paperwork now (I own my truck so this is my first time filing as a business and when things were "good" we were bringing it to his accountant) . 

We went to counseling alone and together and I was worried about the counselor taking his side or manipulation but honestly most of it was beyond the counselors expertise (as you may imagine from what I've said is going on) and he recommended to me, him and us together that he needs a psychiatrist. He also always assured me he saw I was not the crazy one and that I was not the one causing drama. He also pointed out the mother son enmeshment. That aside, I feel right now I probably have no self esteem or boundaries. I'm not as much this I deserve this as that I'm trying so hard to understand why this happened. I definitely feel I need help to move on. Finding a counselor who even understands this is hard. I don't feel capable of taking my trip this week and I'm also now very stressed about how to not lose my job over it and explain I can't and need a few days. I can't have job loss added to my stress at all.

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Quaddie
25 minutes ago, Wileykit said:

. That aside, I feel right now I probably have no self esteem or boundaries. I'm not as much this I deserve this as that I'm trying so hard to understand why this happened. 

Right there.  It happened because of the boundary challenges.

Boundaries are where the edges of yourself lie. They keep "your stuff" separate from someone else's.... and also, allow you to draw lines in what you will allow yourself to be subjected to.

I struggle tons with boundaries - I grew up without them, still struggling to apply them successfully (it doesn't work very well when you're not among people willing to respect you, unfortunately).  There's almost always pain that goes along with learning about boundaries and applying them.

Get your tax papers back. You have a right to them. Take them somewhere else. There are plenty of other places. It's also not that complicated - you may be able to do it yourself, online. You'll see - you can do it.

Why would you lose your job? I'm confused...     Your trip = your driving job?  Do it anyway. You can use the time to yourself. Don't let his crazy eff with your life anymore! You can do it.  

It feels so overwhelming that it can make you feel like you need to stop  and that your body can't keep going with all the turmoil in your mind. But it's a very healthy thing for you to drive. It gets you out on your own. 

Hey - maybe you can do audiobooks while you drive? I don't know, personally I am not an auditory learner but a lot of people like them.

If you don't have a counselor that can help you at the moment, read on your own. The book I recommended is a really good place to start. Also, if you haven't read "Why Does He Do That?" yet, it's highly recommended. 

For you I'd suspect that "Healing Your Emotional Self" by Beverly Engel might be a good one. Not for nothing that you lack boundaries, it's my belief that there's an early reason for that, and this book can be good for helping to develop a sense of self and self-care.

Another book I like is "The Nice Girl Syndrome." 

It doesn't happen overnight, it takes a lot of learning and practice, but you can do it. The thing is -it's probably not going to feel "right" to step away from all this. It's not what you're used to doing. It feels unfamiliar. It feels like "you can't." But you can. You don't need to stay entangled in this. Get your tax stuff back - it's yours, you have a right to it. There's time to find someone else OR do it on your own (yes, you can - the software nowadays walks you through it). 

Do it even if it feels weird or hard or like "you can't." It's unfamiliar and confusing but you can!  And then read, read read things that will help you learn and grow in yourself. 

You will find ways to counteract and distract from the thoughts that try to fool you into thinking that these horribly toxic and not-sane people have any rights to the inside of your head.

It's YOURS - the inside of your head. You can reclaim it.

I think you might feel paralyzed, swirling and stuck like you can't do your job because it's all a bit much and overwhelming. So strip it down. Take away all the things he's said, his mother has said, anything anybody has said. Wrap them in a mental bag and throw them into a bin somewhere in a shadow.

Now. What do you want to do. Do you want to leave? You can! You don't have to think about it, or analyze, or plan. You can just do.  

There's not anything to figure out. You don't have to figure out a way to tell him or them. You don't have to have a meeting or a talk or anything. You don't have to plan or strategize. 

You know what you want. All that other noise in your head is their melodramatic, not-sane toxic chaos - but it's not yours. It doesn't belong to you. It's all theirs. Just a bunch of cartoony blahblahblah-ing that's trying to catch your attention and suck you back in.

YOU do what's right for you. Never mind all the other stuff.

 

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percolate

I'm glad you're seeing a counselor-it will help you with your self esteem and setting boundaries.  

There is something radically wrong with him and his relationship with his mother.  You deserve to be respected-and someone who cares about you won't spit on on, think you are conspiring against him, etc. If he respected and valued his time with you, he would tell his mother to quit texting, calling etc., when you're around.  
 

Get your tax stuff back and run as far away from him as you can get (if you can't get your tax stuff back, talk to a lawyer or accountant to how to recreate the documentation you need..  He's very delusional and could be dangerous.  

Since it's a long distance relationship you have an advantage-you don't live with him.  And since you're on the road a lot, he won't know exactly where you're at or easily be able to track you. 

 

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Wileykit

Thanks Percolate and Quaddie. It helps to have people validite I'm not crazy and that these relationships aren't normal. I really appreciate you taking time to help me through this.  

I have "why does he do that" and "the nice girl syndrome". I think I'll get the boundaries book as well. I actually have fought (shouldn't have to fight) for my boundaries. That ex being the main one. It's something I have never been willing to accept in a relationship. It's been some power struggle for years. If I stand my ground, I get called controlling (for keeping a boundary he knew about when we met) ... Suddenly I am accused of wanting him to have no friends. It's an ex lover...not even a girlfriend. Either way he twists that into I am forcing him to get rid of ALL his friends. So the abuse in that area happens because I am trying to assert myself. 

When his mom called (keep in mind we met for only a few hours and she texted the entire time-he kept checking his phone and I saw new messages from her) she called around 10pm. Because she was telling him he needed sleep and  should be at home and I didn't care about him. He's 46! I'm also sure she told him it had to be done with ME because that's when he sort of ended it. I guess this should be easier but this is the second time he has been absolutely wonderful wanting marriage literally one day and the next he's acting like he's had years of anger bottled in and tossing me out the door. I've never seen that discussed here.  I've read about narcissts discarding you? I mean this has a warped mommy issue thing with it. Someone told me to watch Bates Motel knowing of my guys issues and wow, maybe it's a lesser scale but the mother son relationship is so similar.

I do see how messed up so many things are. I feel these past days I've had PTSD. I haven't probably fully recovered from the first abuse and the way he is over the top in love and talking marriage to screaming spitting and telling me I'm nuts and I have to go and I'm the problem for all his issues and anxiety. I haven't even been doing anything. I just have tried to talk about my feelings very calmly at times. And he always snaps. I've been waking up sweating every night every few hours.  My head still feels in shock. As far as driving I just feel I know myself and I am not safe to go out in winter storms with this kind of mental duress. I may have an accident. I wish I felt better today. I keep running everything through my mind to understand what happened. What I did - only because he blames me .

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Quaddie

See, knowing and having boundaries doesn't mean establishing rules or having to fight for them all the time or trying to "enforce" them upon others.... it's also about recognizing when your boundaries are being disrespected and violated enough to know when a relationship is not healthy or good for you and should be ended. Any kind of relationship. Abusers trample boundaries - it's what they do. There's no way to have healthy boundaries in an abusive dynamic. Fighting for that, standing up, doesn't work - they will always twist it around onto it being you who's the "problem." It's what they do.

Abuse that occurs because you assert yourself is still abuse. Abuse is abuse. It's about control and manipulation.

Having a good sense of boundaries means knowing what you don't want to and shouldn't subject yourself to, and respecting yourself enough not to do so.

It just sounds like he cycles rapidly, but his behaviors don't seem that unusual in terms of abusers - except adding in his special mental illnesses such as delusions and paranoia.... (not that I'm a professional and I'm not diagnosing him or anything).

The shocked weird feeling is normal.... it's okay to feel however you feel. Just know that it's normal to feel that way. Sort of weird and empty and confused and all sorts of mixed-up. 

The thing is, you're really going to need to stop looking into yourself for what you "did" to cause the abuse. The only thing you "did" was open your heart to someone who didn't deserve it. You can't make someone become abusive. You didn't cause this. It was NEVER your fault. 

Trying to understand something that just doesn't make logical sense will drive you crazy. There's no way to make it make sense. The ONLY way that it makes "sense" is to understand completely that it was all his disorder.  It was all his doing. And that it didn't make sense.   

I know that sounds contradictory - the only way that it'll make sense is to understand that it doesn't make sense. ;)   But people can literally make themselves bonkers trying to make sense out of things that just plain don't.   

MY huge "ah-hah" moment?  I remember it vividly. I was still married, but I was on a vacation by myself, and wandering around a hotel with a mall attached. I remember suddenly it hit me - "It's not me - it's him!"  And I wandered around that mall with tears streaming down my face, in a fog, just thinking, "It's not me - it's him!"   

That's the important thing. I thought of an analogy this morning and I'm going to try to apply it a little sideways and badly for you. ;)

This relationship is like a burning house. Well, it's way on-fire already because of the crazy mother triangulation, too. 

Anyway. The house is burning - the upper floor was entirely consumed, the lower floor has pockets of encroaching flames. And you're trying to think, "What did I do to cause this fire? Why did it start burning? How did this happen?" 

In the meantime, still inside that burning lower floor with the encroaching, ever-bigger flames and smoke choking you.

Yes, even though it might be "over" - still in that house. Still trying to figure out how it started and what you did to make it burn, and how you could have put it out...

But the fire didn't start from you.  THEY set it. THEY fed it. You were just in the house.

So run out of the house.

Then, once you are safely, safely at a distance... and your lungs clear from the smoke.... and you get a clear view of the shambles it left... you'll be able to better see that you didn't set it. You didn't cause it. Nothing you did could have prevented it. You just happened to be there. 

And if it wasn't you - it could have been anybody else. Anyone. 

Now. Here's the important thing. You do need to be prepared that he will almost assuredly hoover you.

To get any sort of health for yourself, you're going to need to go no-contact.

Block his number. Block his mother. Block all his friends and relatives. Change your number if that's easier.

If anyone gets through and contacts you? Hang up! Don't look at their social media. Block them every which way. This is imperative for your health.

It'll feel almost like a physical force dragging you back into it. Resistance is imperative. That "force" is the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt - that abuse creates. It's what "feels necessary" because it's what you're used to.

Whenever we make a choice that's different from our normal operational pattern, it can feel weird and wrong. And, it can feel like something is dragging us back into the "old thing." Because it feels familiar, our psyches confuse that for "comfortable" and "right." But - that doesn't mean it's right. It's just a sort of... rut... that we've gotten into. It's always difficult to jump out of a rut - the ridges are tall, and it's easier to just fall back into it.

But you must, must must must - for the sake of all things holy - prevent yourself from being further exposed to their very toxic effects  and not have any contact with them.

YOU have a right to have a healthy existence. YOU have a right to protect yourself from abuse and negative, toxic situations. YOU have a right to escape the hell that is them.

It's going to be hard at first, but it gets easier. The more distance you'll get, the more clarity you'll get. Right now it's muddy and weird and foggy, but it does get better.

 

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Wileykit

Oh my word. I just read the part about blocking his mom. She is on my Facebook and has been messaging and posting like crazy before that night (mostly when I'm with him). I have to delete her, she just posted this passive aggressive post ..a quote which at this time I'm sure is meant against me. "Rescuing someone who continues to make poor choices is not called love. It's called enabling. Stop enabling and refuse to be a safety net so they can grow up". Surely meaning I am the messed up one and her poor son was rescuing me.  I don't need to see this garbage. I am going to read over your post more closely when my blood stops boiling. Wow.  

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Quaddie

Yeah, BLOCK her every which way. She is toxic!

I've been painted that way, too - it hurts. :( I'm sorry. Definitely block block block. It's the only way.

 

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Fluffyflea

Run away from both of them. He's come by his Abuse honestly.

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Wileykit

Thanks for the analogy, Quaddie. And thanks Flufflyflea.  I have thought for awhile he has learned the abuse from his mother.  I just hoped he wanted his own life.  My brain is mush, but I read the fire analogy twice and it makes sense.  I'm also sure when my head clears more it will make even more sense.  One of my biggest flaws is blaming myself already.  I also have a huge problem (which shouldn't be) where I try to believe the best in everyone, and that surely all humans have compassion and empathy.  That they could never hurt someone like this and feel "nothing".  I find this so hard to wrap my head around.  I think the part where I need to stop looking inside myself will require a lot of counselling.  I always had a gut feeling because his mom would say his brothers wife "controls him", always running her down yet sweet to her face.  They both say she forced him to move from the area.  They rarely come visit and it is because she controls him.  Ironically his brothers wife was the nicest one when I met his entire family.  She saw I felt a little overwhelmed meeting a large family all at once, and was the only one to talk with me. His other brother recently moved out of the house (way too old to be there anyway) and told his mom off, to leave him alone and stop texting so much, and he moved in with another woman. My ex and his mom blamed him for having issues and swore he must be on drugs! It just hurts right now because I really thought it was better, and that it was real.  How could he fake the affection and laughs...it just makes no sense.  I'm wanting to call my female dispatcher and tell her what is going on and that I feel mentally incapable this week, to drive.  I don't know if this is a good idea?  She is very nice and I feel I can trust her.  I'm just humiliated and don't want to lose my job. 

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Quaddie

The older brother set boundaries and acted in a healthy manner to protect himself from the family's toxicity.

True to form, the abusers criticized him for doing that, blame-shifted, twisted it, lied about/manufactured "reasons" - anything to defend their reality. 

They can't see or comprehend that they are the abnormal ones. That inability is part of the disorder(s).

Also, yes, there are people - lots of people - without compassion, without the ability for empathy. Trying to get them to feel something in the hopes that they'll change the way they treat you? Well, if you think about it - if someone is treating you without compassion, do they really deserve to be in your life?

There's a concept - putting yourself in the driver's seat. YOU get to choose who deserves to belong in your life. Having to try to convince someone not to be a jerk to you - means that they are a jerk! Not you! Anyone who's a jerk, is a jerk. 

I wouldn't tell your dispatcher your inner turmoil. That's another boundary thing - you don't need to, it's none of her business, and it could turn around to bite you in the butt later. Think self-protection. If you really feel like you need the time off, tell you aren't feeling well. Maybe it's the flu or food poisoning - usually you wouldn't even need to say specifics, it's really nobody's business. But I wouldn't divulge the other stuff - keep it to yourself... that's a boundaries thing, too, in my opinion. Psychological intimacy with work people can be very tricky and can turn into problems, so tread carefully. There's nothing wrong with saying you're sick, however.

 

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Wileykit
22 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

True to form, the abusers criticized him for doing that, blame-shifted, twisted it, lied about/manufactured "reasons" - anything to defend their reality. 

I appreciate how this is just so "matter of fact" for you to say.  Helps me see there is no doubt in the unhealthy abusive behaviour on their part.  This is exactly what started happening all over again lately. "YOU triggered my anxiety", "if YOU would BEHAVE yourself" (yes he said that). It's such blatant control and blame shifting.  He accused me of thinking I'm perfect and never taking blame.  I own when I do something, I just would not allow him to make me own his abuse.  Every time I open myself up and share my feelings he will say I attack him.  Because he wants me to shut up.  This is what happened the night we fought.  I said I was exhausted.  My job is so demanding, I am away 5-6 days.  I have truck and house work and juggling in a relationship and my family.  So I said it was exhausting and I didn't feel it could go that way much longer.  He had said he wanted to get married this summer anyway.  He started saying "Don't do this, don't do this..." getting worked up.  I said "Do what? I'm telling you how I feel.  Suddenly I'm in a conversation about his ex lover and her family and all sorts of other garbage.  This is what he does EVERY TIME I bring up anything to discuss.  It's such a whirlwind of chaos.  He actually ended up saying (Yelling) "I was only going to marry you so you could say you had ME".  Huh?  Get over yourself, please.

I have two sons.  So I am a mother, too. They are both out of the house.  Was it hard, yes.  When my oldest moved in with his girlfriend I felt the protective side.  I did hope he would marry first and then move in but I won't judge. I also see things she does that bother me.  BUT, I never say a thing to my son about his relationship.  Never.  I took a road trip a few years ago, invited them both and we all had a blast.  I can't even imagine calling him daily or even weekly.  We make plans and time when we can.  He would not even allow it.  I would feel embarrassed and smothering.  I won't say I'm a perfect mom and we have a perfect relationship.  Actually, he has said to his girlfriend joking, "if you do that I'll just get my mom to come get me".  I reply with "uh-uh...you are not going to be a mamas boy!"  It's letting him make his own decisions and find his own way.

 

22 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

 

 

 

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percolate
3 hours ago, Wileykit said:

 

I have two sons.  So I am a mother, too. They are both out of the house.  Was it hard, yes.  When my oldest moved in with his girlfriend I felt the protective side.  I did hope he would marry first and then move in but I won't judge. I also see things she does that bother me.  BUT, I never say a thing to my son about his relationship.  Never.  I took a road trip a few years ago, invited them both and we all had a blast.  I can't even imagine calling him daily or even weekly.  We make plans and time when we can.  He would not even allow it.  I would feel embarrassed and smothering.  I won't say I'm a perfect mom and we have a perfect relationship.  Actually, he has said to his girlfriend joking, "if you do that I'll just get my mom to come get me".  I reply with "uh-uh...you are not going to be a mamas boy!"  It's letting him make his own decisions and find his own way.

 

 

You've done a great job-you raised your son to be an independent adult.  You also respected his choice of a girlfriend and grew to like her.  

My 28 year old son currently lives in the same city as I do, but we'll go weeks without calling or texting each other. He went to college halfway across the country at 16.5 years of age and thrived with only occasional contact until Xmas break.  But both of us know if we need something we can count on the other person. 

Call in sick if you need to-but don't give details.  There is plenty of flu going around and you don't want to risk an accident if you're too ill or distracted to drive.  I took a few days off during the worse of period of my marriage and it really helped (we had a commuter marriage because he couldn't find a job in the area).  Having a break from him for 4-5 days a week really made a difference and eventually taught me that it wasn't worth putting up with my xh's abuse. 

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Wileykit
13 minutes ago, percolate said:

You've done a great job-you raised your son to be an independent adult.  You also respected his choice of a girlfriend and grew to like her.  

Thank you for saying this, I have been accused by this guy of being a bad mother, as well (ironic). He hasn't even been in my kids lives enough to say that and it was just to hurt me.  I can honestly say I like my sons girlfriend and she will text me all on her own and when my son ignores me gets on his case to reply...haha.  She said she sees how much I do for my boys.  She's funny and just a kind person.  We mutually respect each other.  It's why when I see what this mother does by smothering him I am angry and sick to my stomach.

You've obviously raised a very healthy son, as well, to feel independent enough to to College far away.  What you describe is what I consider healthy.  It goes against nature to cling to a child tightly. 

I definitely need to take a few days.  I'm going to go see my friend who has, unfortunately, had to listen to this for 4 years.   Re reading these posts helps me keep my mind off of blaming myself and feeling lower than I already do ^_^ 

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AZ-home

His words and actions are the opposite of love. He was able to pretend to be doing better because you are not in the same space very often. With you on the road he was able to keep up the facade longer, but the mask has slipped. He has NOT changed. My ex changed (for the good) during our divorce long enough to make me look like the bad guy and the crazy one for leaving "such a wonderful loving man!." But now, much much later, he can't keep it up. I'm no contact with him but his abusive ways are back and the people in his house now are getting the same treatment I used to get. Narcissists can't keep it up.

Don't worry about why he is that way. It doesn't matter why or who is to blame. His delusional thinking is a MAJOR MAJOR red flag that he is an unsafe person. Him spitting on you is the movie trailer version of what is to come if you stay with him. 

If you want to block these people without enraging them, tell everyone you are getting off FB for a while and shut your account down for a few weeks. Then when you turn it back on, block all people connected to him and they will never realize you ever turned it back on. When you search for someone who blocked you, they cannot find your account at all. These are scary people and I personally, would back away slowly and quietly. You don't want to poke the beehive. Just be gone a lot, don't answer your phone and say it's dead a lot. It has a faulty battery and they are back ordered. Be creative. But be gone.

My ex had delusions and the stories he made up in his head when I left him were insane. And scary. And damaging. Be prepared. He did and said things I never could have expected. I think your guy is already well down that road. Better pop some popcorn, those two are gonna put on quite a show when you leave. 

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Bennu

Sorry I'm late to the game here and I didn't read everything as carefully as I maybe should have. Get away. Save yourself. You don't deserve what would be a terrible possibly/probably dangerous relationship. Get out quickly and carefully. His stuff is nuts. You can fix it and you can't understand it. You can remove yourself from it. It may take some time to get over it all, but that's much better than staying in it any longer. Good luck to you.

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Wileykit

Thanks ladies.  AZ-home, I was reading your milestones post last night and it really encouraged me. Right now there is a big fear of being alone. Even leaving for a trip. My brain is still messed but the other thing is I drive cross border and will be far from everyone if I happen to have a breakdown emotionally. I just feel I need to stay close to home because I'm scared to be alone with my emotions as they are right now.  That's so wonderful you got yourself a home and a roommate. I have considered having a renter in my home since I'm away alot anyway. So I tried to get my taxes right after. He would not be rational and even respond regularly. I ended up deciding I didn't feel safe just storming out to his place alone to get them. I guarantee he'd call the police and despite the truth it's a small town I am not from and no way that would end well for me.  He said he would contact me in a few days to arrange it because he was still messed up from his "meltdown" he calls it. He always figures he just needs a few days and he's fine. This bothers me because basically he needs the time to get himself together enough to pretend he's sane or gain his "composure" back...figure out ways to make me feel I'm not sane. So I haven't decided the best course of action.  I'm slowly starting to see...I always thought the abuse and "meltdowns" was stress and anxiety (you know, all caused by me) and that the real him was the nice guy. Now I'm beginning to understand by some posts here that the real guy is the ugly one (within a relationship anyway) and the meltdowns happen because he can't keep up the nice guy act. He's mentioned feeling he's drowning (which I assumed to mean me again- suffocation him as he says with his mother projection) I assume this really means he is feeling anxious and overwhelmed again because the REAL him, the monster, is surfacing again. No way I could possibly be smothering him! I'm gone all week. Have been conditioned to never text or call first because I'll be called smothering and controlling. He called all the time and texted on HIS time and terms. I'd eventually have to say ..."I can't always talk at 830pm when I start my days at 4am. I'm exhausted." When he goes to his mom's it isn't just supper.  It's watching shows till 830 together and I get called when he's done. It's taking her shopping up to 3 times a week at times. Taking her to doctor appointments. She has 8 children! He's very much he husband is all I can see. There isn't any room for anyone else anyway and it doesn't matter because he's clearly not mentallly healthy. I'm just processing all the crazy. I've never heard of a mother being this involved and a relationship revolving around her time.

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AZ-home
1 hour ago, Wileykit said:

I always thought the abuse and "meltdowns" was stress and anxiety (you know, all caused by me) and that the real him was the nice guy. 

It's the exact opposite. The real him is the abusive guy with meltdowns and the nice guy was CAUSED BY YOU!

The YouTubers [Thrive After Abuse, Dana Morningstar], and [We Need to Talk with Kris Godinez] talk about emotional incest, when an adult parent/child have an unusually close and codependent relationship. And you're right she is using him like a husband. My son complains that his (abusive) father is doing this to him and it's creeping him out. He said, "It's like we're a married couple! Ew!" My son and your BF are in the snare of a narcissist.

When I left I found YouTubers, like the ones I mentioned above, and listened to them endlessly (still do) to fill my mind with positive thoughts, strategies, encouragement, etc to help me get through. It helped me to rewire my brain from the abuse I had suffered and also didn't give my mind time to beat myself up. There are audio books that could do the same thing (great for truck drivers). It also was amazing validation which is so desperately needed. I got validation here too but I needed that constant stream of it. Leaving is hard. REALLY hard. But you can do it.

If you have access to a therapist I highly recommend that. If you work for a company it's possible you have a mental health benefit. I found out I got free visits to a therapist and that helped SO much. And since you drive, you could listen to these speakers. If you want to know more people to listen to you can PM and I can list more. I have several that I never miss an episode, even 2 years post abuse. At this point I feel like I'm learning so that I can help others. I'm trying to pay it forward, for all the help and support I got in my time of need. And I find it fascinating really. How I was duped! How that happens so gradually that you don't even realize it until you're in over your head. And how COMMON it is and how THEY'RE ALL ALIKE basically! I thought my story was unique! Nope! This his happening all over the world, in all countries, and cultures and it plays out basically the same everywhere. 

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