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AZ-home

Issues with my narc friend

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AZ-home

I am a female speaking about my female friend. After going through and ending a long abusive marriage I had no friends. I think we can all relate to that. So I started reaching out on social media to make new friends and reacquainted with a HS friend, Joi, who said she was going through a divorce too. She came over, spilled her guts, and I knew already she was a narcissist. All the signs were there. As she told her marriage/divorce story I even realized she was the same character as my husband and her ex was me. But she was friendly to me and I decided she would be safe in group settings. 

Wrong.

I would like to offer this as a cautionary tale.

We do hang out in groups mostly with other ladies. But recently I left the idealize phase (remember: Idealize, Devalue, Discard are the phases), and entered the devalue phase. She tried to set me up with a guy. I wasn't interested in the guy. She proceeded to tell me how to handle this situation (that SHE created mind you, SHE put him in MY orbit) and when I didn't do it her way she chewed me out in front of the group! And then when I got silently angry cause my PTSD is out the roof already and she just triggered a huge flashback of my ex, she started pecking like a chicken, "You're mad at me, you're mad at me why are you mad at me, your mad why are you mad?" She's driving me mad! STOP already! Then she gets on her phone and starts ignoring me and texting this guy I'm sure. She was his flying monkey basically and now she needs to report to him. So now I'm sitting there while she texts away. The others are also texting. I'm just staring holes through them and they all seem clueless. RUDE! She was done with me. So I left. I'm glad the others saw her treatment of me at least so she can't embellish the story later. I decided then and there I'm done with her.

BUT I have some keys that belong to the guy she wanted me to date. We flirted a little and he loaned me his boat keys while he's out of town. He and her started hounding me DAILY to get the keys back from me!!! I have decided that I'm no contact with her. I'm trying to back out quietly without causing a narcissist injury and make her worse. So I made what seemed like a good decisions to MAIL the keys to her. He's out of town. The envelope arrived empty! *GASP* So now they are both pissed at me and texting me. I only answer him and not her. They are both saying "WHY would you mail KEYS?!?!?!" She lives close enough to me I could have dropped them off at her place. I could have even done that in the middle of the night to avoid seeing her.  The post office can't seem to find them! I feel so stupid and they are criticizing me and I realize I don't handle criticism well especially if it's dripping in anger. This is more flashback stuff for me. 

I needed to make this right and the 2 of them were blowing up my phone. So I called him. He was nice about it. He said not to worry about it. I said I'd give him money to have more keys made and he said not to worry about that either. I apologized all over myself. He asked why I mailed them and I just said I've been busy. He's obviously in her hip pocket so I can't tell him the truth. He would have told her the minute we hung up. He accepted this answer and that was that. 

I decided to see her ONE LAST TIME to give her money so he could have the keys made. I don't dare MAIL the money to her!!! Cause of the POST OFFICE! So I'm on her porch.

She asked, WHY did you MAIL KEYS?!
Me: I was busy
Joi: Buy why didn't you just bring them by?
Me: I've been busy

She wouldn't accept this answer and just repeated the question OVER and OVER and you know what? The pecking chicken routine again. Maybe that worked on your ex but it doesn't work on me. Peace out. I'm leaving. I start to walk away. She's chasing after me saying stuff like "what's wrong? why are you acting this way? is this the way it's gonna be?" the more she says the more she sound like my X and I gotta get outta here! Then she says, "You're not going to apologize?" 

*GASP*

Now I have to stop walking! I wheel around!

Me: I apologized to [boat guy]!!!! You want me to apologize to YOU?! I haven't done anything to YOU? You want me to apologize? 

At which point I go into an uncontrolled RANT full of sarcastic apologies to HER because you know what, she's a narcissist who needs attention and thinks she deserves an apology from ME  because Uncle Sam lost those phoey keys which aren't even HERS! This is between me and [boat guy]. But she has inserted herself into the drama...for the fun of it. She set me up with this guy and now she thinks she can control me! Sorry honey!  

When I left she called and I didn't answer. She texted and I didn't answer that either. The texts escalated to name calling! Real mature! More proof she's a narc. But she was trying to bait me into a fight. I did not take the bait. Now she is talking about me behind my back and posting cheeky social media memes which I know are meant for me. If I block her now it will trigger her rage. I am trying to back away slowly and not piss her off further.

So even tho I'm no contact and that is working out so far, my other friend, Felicity, is going back and forth between us. Uh oh! I can't tell her not to be friends with Joi. That's her decision, but she could cause me big trouble. I have warned her over and over to not tell Joi any of my shi.t. NOTHING! I don't want to lose felicity. She's a healthy person and right now, I think she is a good friend and is supporting me and I have so few friends! But I DO know I'm done with this junior high drama nonsense. Joi is out! Do you guys think I can keep Felicity? All Joi has to do is give Felicity a few drinks and she'll spill all my beans. She means well but she's a major codependent and feels sorry for Joi. If I get rid of Felicity I have no one. Literally! Felicity is learning about narcissism and codependency but isn't as experienced as us yet. She seems to be learning from my example. I think she doesn't want to hurt Joi's feelings, even tho Joi has done the exact same shi.t to her! Codependent! 

It's a big junior high mess.

 

 

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Quaddie

Ugh!   But why not block her? What's the worst that could happen? Why are you afraid of pissing her off and triggering her rage?

If she rages outright, it might help others to see how off the rails she is. 

Otherwise, if she rages you'll have her blocked and you won't see it anyway.

You DO have the right to tell your other friends that you don't want to hear anything from Joi. You can even give an abbreviated "why" - which could be something like, you just don't like the way she's been treating you, it's not healthy. 

If Felicity doesn't respect your boundaries then, I hate to say it but she's not a healthy friend. Maybe if you talk to her and explain (without too much detail) that you don't want anything to do with Joi because you are not comfortable with how she treats you - and also, you can also say to Felicity that if Felicity respects you as a friend, then she will not go between the two of you like that. (Sounds like Felicity has boundary issues too...  and it's not about "hurting Joi's feelings" to respect your boundaries and wishes. To disrespect those is Felicity trampling your boundaries, too - not a good thing at all. You cannot trust her, and that's not safe.)

You deserve to not have to worry or be sucked into this kind of drama. It can suck not having friends, but at the same time, if they cause you pain and difficulty and drama then it's not healthy for you, either.

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AZ-home

Thanks. Good stuff. 

40 minutes ago, Quaddie said:

If she rages outright, it might help others to see how off the rails she is. 

. It can suck not having friends, but at the same time, if they cause you pain and difficulty and drama then it's not healthy for you, either.

 

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hoping

I think Quaddies advice is very good. Can you make friends with some of the other ladies in the group you were talking about? Good luck and hugs 

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AZ-home

I think I will attempt to keep Felicity but keep the information I tell her to a minimum. Let her and Joi talk about me, they won't have much to talk about. Felicity needs a good friend right now and I want to try to be there for her because she was there for me. Joi seems to have moved on now. Her drama died down quickly. So far the keys were never found by the post office.

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AZ-home

Joi had to poke me with a stick to see if I'm really dead (gone). She used [boat guy] to triangulate and communicate with me via text. He started out with simple questions. Then he started rehashing what happened with the keys, I guess fishing for different answers, and the next thing I knew he was quoting her and trying to give me "dating advice" again which I already said I didn't want. I basically had to tell him (or her via him) to mind your own business. That shut them up. I'm done with them. I thought maybe I could stay friends with [boat guy]. I never even really got to know him when he was in town. Now that he's her pit bull, her flying monkey, doing her dirty work, he's out! You blew it dude! Those 2 can go play with other poor helpless victims. I don't have the patience for this nonsense. Peace out! I'm going to my happy place!

I'm also happy to report that they were fishing for information about me that Feilcity did not give to them. So score one for Felicity! She had my back afterall. She's wising up. Go Felicity! whoop whoop

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Quaddie

"Like" :)

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hoping
2 hours ago, AZ-home said:

I'm also happy to report that they were fishing for information about me that Feilcity did not give to them. So score one for Felicity! She had my back afterall. She's wising up. Go Felicity! whoop whoop

That's good, sounds like she is learning. 

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whitebutterfly11

Your writing style, I must say, is AWESOME. :) You have a way with words, and a wonderful sense of humor. 

I see your dilemma with Felicity, being a codependent, and somewhat likely to succumb to pressure when cornered by Joi or other narcissists like her. 

Though, from your last comment, she's proving herself trustworthy and is making good effort to keep her word.

If you sense that Felicity is capable of maintaining your confidentiality and being a supportive friend, I think you can continue to try and see how things go with her, but as you mentioned, you could possibly start with only minimal information and work your way into the deeper, more sensitive information the more she proves she is trustworthy.

Holy CRAP about Joi, though. Drama seems to be an understatement in this context. I can see how Felicity might be afraid of letting her go as a friend, even if she's uncomfortable or realizes the malignant behavior in her--especially if she's codependent. I sense, though, that you can be a very positive influence on her and use your insight and knowledge on narcissism to help empower her and make some discoveries on her own. 

Keep writing, if it helps!

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AZ-home

Joi hosted a party and didn't invite me. No shock there. She never got over the fight mentioned above and I don't reconcile either because she is not a healthy friend for me while I heal from my harmful marriage. But Felicity is such a positive person she wants to see us "make up." Joi told Felicity that she can co-host the party and invite me if she wants to but she (Joi) is not inviting me. I didn't want to go. Not for $1000!!!! Why would I go to the home of a person who doesn't want me there!?

During the party Felicity texted me over and over to come and talk to a cute guy who thought I would be there. She said he came there just to run into me. I told her no over and over and over. Meeting a new guy in front of Joi sounds like a terrible idea! She's jealous of me big time! No good can come from it. Finally Felicity called me and assured me that, she had my back, she wouldn't let Joi harm me and that Joi won't make a scene in front of [cute guy.] Against my better judgement I went. 

I talked to [cute guy] but Joi kept turning the music louder and louder to make it hard for us to hear each other. I stayed about an hour and left. 

After I got home I found out that Joi was livid that I came! She didn't show it while I was there. She was SO mad at Felicity for inviting me, even though she had told her that she could, that Joi blocked all of us, including [cute guy] on social media!!! And of course now she is smearing us to the others, which is what I went through in my marriage so it hurts, ...a LOT! The good news is [cute guy] is wise and can see through her shenanigans. Felicity is wising up, too. She is done with Joi and all her Jr High drama!

Here I what I have learned and I hope it will help all of you. A narc is a narc is a narc. It doesn't matter the gender. They can be your parent, your child, your spouse, your pastor, your friend, etc. Stay away from all of them. I thought she was a "lesser narc" or that I could keep her from hurting me. Wrong. And I didn't trust my gut on going to the party. I KNEW not to go. I know Felicity is codependent and I have to stand up to her better. The next time I meet someone and get the narcissist vibes, I'm running!

I did meet another divorcee (female). I reached out to her because she was so sad on social media. But I realized quickly she was a narcissist seeking attention. I backed away. Later she did something that landed her in the local news so I was right about her. It's not my job to "rescue" people from their messes. When they make their bed, they may just have to lie in it. 

I am happy to report that I have some new healthy friends (both genders) and I still talk to [cute guy] a little. 

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Shineonme81

I'm sorry for the mess you went through, but I'm glad you have some friends to lean on! 

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AZ-home

I'm here with an update and to reiterate my warning about narcissistic friends. Mine is a cautionary tale. I know living with a narcissist such as a spouse, child, parent, etc is really hard. I went through that and I'm healing and growing and I feel like a truly different person having gone through that. But my new lesson to learn is that the narcissistic friend can be JUST as dangerous. Just because they are not IN YOUR HOUSE doesn't mean they can't hurt you. When you see the signs, go!

I kept my word and have stayed no contact with Joi. But she now has SEETHING anger towards me. Felicity has tried to maintain a separate friendship with both of us. Remember in my original post I asked if I could/should keep Feclity as a friend if she was basically a bridge to Joi, who is a raging narcissist. I should have gone with my gut, which was saying it was a bad idea, but I didn't want to lose a friend. Joi is freakishly mad at me because while we were friends (and she was love bombing me basically)  I told her about being no-contact with my ex and WHY. So, if I'm no contact with HER, she knows I think she's a narcissist. Of course, I kinda don't care that she knows. But this pi$$es her off big time! I don't mind that she hates me from afar. That's the beauty of no contact. 

Until, she spreads her hatred of me. Just like my ex, just like ALL narcissists, they need all the sympathy and they need to be the victim so she is now on a campaign of slandering me. Not only did Felicity turn on me, she cussed me out! While she was cussing me out I was dying to say "Joi? Is that you?" because she had never spoken to me like that before. Literally 5 minutes prior to her cussing me out I called her and asked if she wanted to go hear a band. She (Felicity) with a smile in her voice said she would meet me there. I swear she must have been WITH Joi because 5 min later she called me back, picked a fight with me an let me have it! I just had to hang up. I'm supposed to do some computer work for her. She wanted me to do it over the Easter weekend. When I told her I had been busy with church activities and it was a holiday she said she didn't care. Didn't care that it was Easter, didn't care about my church, etc, etc. She cancelled going to see the band with me. (I went anyway!) I thought maybe she'd been drinking and was being an angry drunk. Nope. She's still pi$$ed at me. She called me at work Monday and tried yelling at me again and I told her never to call me at work and yell at me, I will do the work in 15 min, GOODBYE! I haven't heard from her since. I am happy to report that I finished her work while maintaining no contact. It will be interesting to see if she pays me like she we had agreed to. I truly think that Joi is behind this new attitude and that she influenced Felicity's attitude toward me and timed this fight SO that she could get out of paying me. I sent her company an invoice for my services.

I think, in hindsight, she has been feeding Joi information about me all along. That's how Joi's anger toward me has gotten to such a volcanic level when I never see the girl! I think probably Felicity's WHOLE friendship with me was fake and Joi allowed it for intel gathering. Which means she has been two-faced with me all this time and that really hurts. She let a few comments slip that she is very close with Joi and telling her ALLL my stuff, which isn't much to tell. I'm just little ol me, working, going to the gym, not dating anyone. I don't even hate Joi. I don't want to be around her but I don't hate her. 

But that's getting harder right now

So Joi poisoned Felicity. But oh, no, she doesn't stop there. I live in a small town. People my age, we all know each other. She is turning them all against me! I guess Felicity and Joi have joined forces. I was texting [cute guy from the party] all this time and now he isn't answering me anymore. Right before the blowup, Felicity set me up with the most promising prospect of a new guy for me. We went on two dates and I thought we had mutual attraction. He's dropped off and not answering me now. Tonight I texted several people to ask about their week an not one answered me! So basically between my ex making me lose my church and my sibling, and now Joi/Felicity making me lose my circle of friends, I'm alone! That's it. Operation smear campaign has been a huge success. When you have THREE enemies in a small town, they can influence a LOT of people! I have to start at zero making all new friends, which takes TIME! I wonder what they told the new guy? I'm super disappointed about him. After our 2nd date I thought we were definitely going to have a 3rd! 

[Cute guy from the party] lives pretty far away. He came here for easter to see family. I told him to drop by and see me. He said he would. Then he said "be there in 15 min." TEN MINUTES later he said "maybe next time I come." LITERALLY nothing happened in those 10 minutes. I wasn't even talking to him. He was coming. Then he wasn't. Now he's not texting anymore. It HAS to be them because nothing happened between him and I! Nothing bad happened with my new guy and I either! Someone is poisoning the well. And I am powerless to stop it. 

I just have to hope karma will get them and hope that I get to see it happen. 

So, toxic friends are very very bad. They can blow up all your other friendships. I try really hard to be a kind and loving person. I feel SOOOOO MISUNDERSTOOD! Like no one REALLY knows me! Cause if they did, they wouldn't leave me and believe the slander. If you have toxic friends, get out now. The longer you keep them around, the more ammunition they have to hit you with and the more damage they can do. 

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Quaddie
10 hours ago, AZ-home said:

I think, in hindsight, she has been feeding Joi information about me all along

I think I remembered that you thought that at the time, too? That she was triangulating between you? 

Ugh, I'm sorry you're going through all this. :(  It really is a horrible feeling. :( 

And the worst is, imo - even though you know they are influencing people, you can't directly tell anyone or address it or even sometimes "think" it because it seems like it's just "paranoia" and nobody believes you, or would think you're the one being "dramatic" and "paranoid."

Even though you know you're not. But then, the person who is afflicted can't see their own issue so then 'round and 'round it goes, even in one's own self-doubt.

The guy may have been influenced, or he may be a jerk on his own, but that's so outside-bounds and the way they meddle with you makes me wonder is there any way you can just go somewhere else to live a more independent and healthy life? Because being surrounded by the pick-a-little crew and having to be afraid all the time they are interfering in your life and slandering you, is just a really unfair and difficult way to live. Not that having to move is "fair," either.

That's what sucks the most, I think. Narcs and abusers who f*k with one's life, and then you're ("generic you," not you specifically) the one who has to give up things that have meaning and importance to and alter your life just to try to get out from their influence.

:(

I know there are a lot of platitudes about "the right person will see you" and "if they act like that, they weren't friends, anyway" - etc. - but even when a person knows all that stuff, it doesn't help the pain.

I'm sorry. :(  It's a horrible feeling. :(

 

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AZ-home

I am open to moving IF it's career based. My job is pretty awesome and I've been doing it a long time and have built up respect among my colleagues. I would be crazy to leave it unless I had something better.  I hate to start back at square one. I may put my resume out there and see what happens. I just bought my house recently and love it so much. I work in the neighboring town and when I was house shopping I wanted to move to the town I work in but couldn't afford it. So I bought in the suburb. There are other suburbs I was open to but decided on the one where I grew up because the prices were great (more house for the money) and low crime and I'm rather close to my young adult son who lives with his dad, my ex. As long as he lives with an emotional abuser, I want to be there for him. Once he moves out, I can move on. I feel like he needs my support and sometimes he opens up to me about the stress of living with his dad and I cherish those times and want to be supportive to him. 

I have to train myself to not worry what other people are doing and what they think of me. It's easier said than done. I think it's a sign of maturity if I can get to that point. I have been doing this gradually as in: one person at a time. I don't care what Joe thinks of me. I don't care what Suzy is doing behind my back. I have to psych myself through each person one by one. So Felicity is my new person to "eliminate." It hurts because I THOUGHT she was my friend and the recent betrayal is hurtful. Her treatment of me was SO bad and so abusive that she is going to be easy to move on from. Now that I know she is capable of treating me that way, I have no desire to experience that again. I'm moving on and I WANT to. 

I need to make friends outside of this town and will try to think of ways to do that. I have a very good friend at my church (pretty far from my home town) and we go for brunch after church every sunday and I always look forward to that. We have similar interests and have gone out and done stuff several times. She's actually my son's age but neither of us seems to mind. So, I'm blessed to have her. I have two very close friends but they live far away so we text and call and they are there for me but I can't just hang out with them. I'll be ok. My circle just keeps getting smaller and smaller but the remaining members are high quality. 

PS: I chose a church pretty far from my hometown for this same reason. My ex had slandered me so badly at my former church that I basically want to run far far from those people and all the lies they had heard about me.  They all think I'm a cheating ho bag. I just had to let that go. They are wrong. Moving on. 

 

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Quaddie

Yes, but it takes a lot of psychic energy to fend all that off and deal with it, even if you know you "shouldn't" care. It's like going out on the town "anyway" when you know your abusive partner doesn't like it. It's always in your head whether you want it there or not.

It IS a sign of health and maturity to be able to live your life without letting in the negativity from what others think, but in practice it can be very difficult (or even impossible) to do in certain circumstances.

Betrayal is really hurtful. :( Let yourself feel that way, while you know the relationship is no good, it's okay to feel however you feel.

It's great that you have connections that aren't nearby, and yeah, probably a good idea to nurture that more - bring more positivity to balance it all out.  

But to me it really sux that it seems like you always have to be rearranging bits of your life because of people who are being jerkholes to you. Just acknowledging that it sux and it's okay to feel that.

I really hate people being jerkholes. :-\

 

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AZ-home

Mean people su.ck.

     -A poem by AZ-home

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AZ-home

And thanks for your support. I just needed to vent and I knew this board would understand. I jumped out of the frying pan (married to a toxic man) and into the fire (new toxic friend). Lesson learned. And now I get to warn my young church friend. "Learn from MY mistakes!" 

Run Forrest Run!

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Quaddie
22 minutes ago, AZ-home said:

Mean people su.ck.

     -A poem by AZ-home

Excellent!! :D

Yep, we get it. 

 

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Wileykit

This is horrible to have to go through after being through a relationship like you have. I can't believe grown women act like this. I don't know what I'd do without my few friends to lean on after getting out of the relationship. Hoping you can find loyal and supportive friends who treat you the way you deserve. This reminds me of the movie "mean girls"

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AZ-home

Mean Girls, exactly. I always say, I can't tell a story about them without it sounding like Jr. High.

There's a red flag for you!

I finally heard back from [cute guy from the party]. He is the only wise one in the bunch and either he is playing me really well or he understands what is happening and is supportive of me. He's just a really busy guy (high stress job) so he was slow to respond but very very sweet when he did. The new guy I went on 2 dates with seems to be gone for good. Oh well. Wasn't meant to be. If Felicity blew that up (I'll never know) then shame on her. She set me up with him. I think it's funny timing that we had 2 awesome dates, Felicity cussed me out, then he ghosted me. Either that or he just doesn't like "me" which he is entitled to and then, I move on. I just didn't get that vibe at all! I really thought we were digging each other. 

Movin' on. Next chapter.

 

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