• Announcements

    • Curly

      Replying to PMs

      Please note that you can not reply to a personal message by replying to the notification email. Recently admins have received some email responses to personal messages. This is because some members have replied to the notification email. You can not reply to a personal message via the email. What replying to the notification email does is send a copy of the original message and the reply to the admin email address. It does not send your reply to the person who sent you the message. The email notification of the personal message does request "PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL!"
    • Curly

      New Members and validating your account.

      New members registering please do not hesitate to contact our admin if you do not see a validation email within a few minutes of registering. Yahoo and some other email addresses tend to block the validation email and without this part of the process your account remains in limbo. Our admins are more than happy to help you complete the validation process should this automated system fail. We can be contacted via admin.our.place@gmail.com Please note that you may experience a delay between registering your account and validating before you are able to post as we do also manually process all registrations to keep this forum free of spam. Your account should be activated within 24 hours of you completing the validation process. Thank you.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Quaddie

PTSD work

41 posts in this topic

I mean, that's not even the worst of it. There's this constant negativity like nothing I do is right or good enough, and no positive input.

And I was accused earlier and bawled out inaccurately (which I argued with, bad me!) ...But that's one of my very serious triggers AND boundaries. (Which btw in the past I've, been condemned for trying to address, in other situations, but I guess one is never permitted to stand up for oneself, if one is ME. And I am.)

So I'm drafting notes to her cuz I'm supposed to tell her when she's being an 4ss, but bet to dollars to donuts it'll come back to bite me. Can I handle that? NO. NO I CAN'T. But I can't handle being constantly told I'm a,fvckup, either. (Not in that word, but you know what I mean.)

So idk. Catch-22. I'm so sick of being treated like siht. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the worst Catch-22. 

The worst because she asked you to tell her when she's projecting/being overbearing and yet she can't take it. 

It sounds terrible. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't sleep.

I sent the email. Now I'll be freaked out about the reaction forever. Because such things historically cause me horrible grief. 

But I can't bear being treated crappily or berated like a child.

I just can't.

No one would be okay with being treated like this, especially in a new job.

There are already too many facets to it, to explain. I only addressed one of them with this. It was long, and also would be too much to try to address more at that time. (And I've been rarely berated in priors for writing such things, for using too many words, for not expressing myself, FOR expressing myself, etc.)

The new gal is becoming a huge problem but saving that for another battle. 

And another new gal starts Monday.

I am below them all, have no peers, all of them will be bossing me, none of them evidently know how to actually manage a human.

(Yes I'm re-opening my job search, but remember it took years to find this one, my needs and limits are unique, and NO job is going to be the answer anyway, for many reasons, not the least of which is this repeating issue of serious, significant and even devastating abuse in nearly every job from the beginning of time.)

I just don't want to be treated like this. Just when I think I've experienced everything, something outrageously over-the-top comes along....

I can't sleep...    Maybe they are all right and I am stupid and worthless. Maybe they've all been right that I am just ridiculous to think I'm anything. Maybe I *am* ridiculous and pathetic and stupid and careless and don't think and don't try hard enough and can't do anything right. It's hard not to wonder when so many people insist,  and go to great lengths to treat you like that.

Even if I am a piece of sh!t, I'm still sick of being treated like that. I honestly don't see others being put through this, over and over for decades....a lifetime....  Maybe I deserve it but I'm not an a4s4ole like so many others are while they rise and gain respect and I just get kicked further and further down....

I just can't anymore

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quaddie

I'm thinking of you and going to pray for you. Hugs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks hoping

 

 

Every which way I turn, it's wrong

Like a house of horrors, every hall or door leads to more 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(((Quaddie)))

Even though there's the risk of fallout from sending that email, and it must feel unsettling as you wait, I'm glad you sent it. Boss Lady has been projecting on you and treating you unfairly in so many ways, and that deserves a voice. You had every right to say what you needed to say (and she invited you to). From what you've described of her, she might not handle it the way that a leader should (she might project, get personally offended, etc.), but she shouldn't be treating you less-than, or projecting onto you. 

I can imagine the mixed feelings you might feel.

Standing up to abuse in the workplace is one of the hardest things to do! 

I'm so sorry that you're in a situation in which who you truly are isn't being seen, heard, or honored.

My thoughts are with you!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you.

It's not going to end well no matter what, I think. There's so many ways that this is "crazy" - it's that true, classic abusive environment. Every which way. Nothing I do is right, expected to mind-read, put up with tantrums with inaccurate accusations, fuzzy EVERYTHING like no matter which way you go, it's not good enough or right. 

I miss a lot of what I left behind in the old job. All the things I was afraid I'd miss, I do. Seriously a lot. There's no going back, though. That situation - they forced me to leave, or else I would have in short order been terrorized for something heinous and forced out anyway. The signs were absolute. I couldn't allow them to terrorize me. So, but I was very sad to be forced to leave that way.  Athough there was also a huge ethical dilemma with my workplace which also made it the "right thing" to leave, but that doesn't make it better.

Nothing feels okay right now. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish in workplaces it was considered acceptable to say to "superiors," "I'm not okay with being talked-to like that."  (Or even, "Your little tantrums are not okay! That's not how you treat people!")

It's that it's mandatory to just "accept" it as "feedback" and be "open to it" or else you're being "defensive" and "insubordinate."

Which is just craziness. Being less-than in every way, including humanity.

Well....... you could do it, but then they'd say, "Fine then, there's the door. Buh-bye now."

(Being able to say such things still wouldn't fix the rest of the bonkers stuff going on, however.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's gotten way worse. 

It did not go well that I spoke my mind (even though I was told to!)

I am pretty unacceptable. And it went VERY personal in a VERY degrading and humiliating way...  Every time I think I've seen it all..... they find new ways....

And of course, like any abuser, the tantrums (I didn't call them that explicitly) were completely denied. Of course she NEVER did that! And of course, she has given me positive feedback! (A lie, it didn't happen.)  When I feel like I can't do anything right and I'm doing everything wrong, of course it's my own fault. I AM sucking. I'm not being careful!

And I'm expected to mind-read so incredibly crazily that I can't even describe the situation - and not only expected, but I'm wrong and bad and not good enough for not thinking two steps ahead and just not performing by not being able to magically mind-read about something I have no clue about and which she's not even making logical sense about... but ... I can't explain why it doesn't make sense to expect that, of course.

It's so unbelievably bad and I'm so incredibly upset that all I want to do is go back in the middle of the night tonight and take my stuff and NEVER go there again.  (I can't - well, I shouldn't. I'll lose my income AND my whole household's medical benefits.)

I can't hold my head up. My DIGNITY has been removed (again!!! how the heck do they manage this stuff?!?!)   AND - when I said it was degrading, and humiliating, was told ("I don't want you to feel that way!")  ... and when I said it was INTIMATELY PERSONAL, was told ("I'm not crossing any lines here.")   And I refused to be okay with it! I refused to let her "off the hook" at the end of the "convo" when she said she didn't want me to leave feeling worse than when I came in. I was very OBVIOUSLY upset and stunned. I won't bury that. My DIGNITY - keeps being scoured off me with sandpaper and a drill......   and when I stand up and ask to be respected.... it keeps making me be degraded and humiliated even more.

 

I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't.

Abuse is abuse is abuse. is abuse. is abuse. is abuse. and I can't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

((((Quaddie)))))

:(

I'm so, so sorry.

It's not okay.

Abuse is not okay.

:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what you've said it sounds like you handled it all very well. She is back peddling. Also why do you care so much what she thinks? 

You have better things to worry about. Fukx given should be zero. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kanga said:

From what you've said it sounds like you handled it all very well. She is back peddling. Also why do you care so much what she thinks? 

You have better things to worry about. Fukx given should be zero. 

Why do I care so much what she thinks? She's my boss. She wasn't back-peddling, she truly believes this crap (which she, herself is exacerbating and causing but of course I can't make that point...) and then criticized me more.     AND the things that have been said to me (not just here - but oh, it's plenty bad here - the worst - but elsewhere, too, and all combining) are so unbelievably personally denigrating. And so humiliating and hurtful that I can't even discuss them here.

need an income, I need the benefits - the whole household is on my plan...   You can't not care what your boss wants or thinks. The whole "not caring about what people think" thing cannot apply to workplaces, where it's your job to care what people think about you, where you are formally dealt with based on what they think of you, where your very livelhood hinges on what they think of you.

One cannot just shrug the shoulders with "who cares" the way one would in social relationships. I literally depend on a job to survive. That's why, in my opinion, workplace abuse is all the more horrific because its targets are held hostage with the means for survival while people just shrug at you and say "just get another job." It's NOT that easy. If it were I'd be out already. If I could snap my fingers I would have moved on within the first few weeks. And I JUST STARTED this job, so now I'm a job-hopper, and if I needed to do it again I wouldn't be able to. Put that all together with challenges due to my certain needs, limits, age, field changes that I'm not interested in pursuing, and alllllllll kinds of challenges and it's not simple at all.

I'm sorry if that explanation seemed "defensive" (<-- itself a very triggering concept as that's what workplaces use to keep you from being able to stand up for yourself), but to be honest this is an extremely serious situation and doesn't deserve minimizing. It's really that bad. It's that bad for me. It's so bad that I can't even tell you how bad it is. And I think a lot of people really do not understand how serious this really is.

If I "don't care" then I would be fired, possibly with cause which would ruin my ability to get a job and remove my livelihood and wreak true devastation in my life. You can't "not care". And "not caring" would also reap more and more criticisms which I cannot handle either. I'm already close to the bottom right now. It's very bad. But I cannot over-emphasize what bad shape I'm in at the moment. But it's not my fault for having to deal with it. It's not my fault that I am forced to care because that's the way it works in workplaces.

Please, please please please don't anybody tell me to compartmentalize because that's not going to work, either. Imagine you've gone from one horribly abusive relationship to another to another and you can't get out - you're forced to have relationships for your survival.....  and the damage and the trauma keep getting worse... and the control and craziness just keep getting worse, only you cannot even go into another room - you're forced to be right there, to listen and do and try to be something that it's even possible and you're mentally and emotionally beaten-up about it and blamed for it...   And you can't leave. And you can't switch channels, and you can't put headphones in, and you can't just focus on "you" because it's your job to do this. It's your purpose. 

No, if I walked out I couldn't just magically get another job right away, and it would likely hamper my ability to get one. I don't have savings to fall back on. I don't have retirement or social security. I know I technically "could" - but it's at immense risk and cost that I simply don't have.

Yes, I'm seeking another but this one took two years to get. I won't last two months here. Or two weeks. Not sure about two days, or two hours, or even two minutes.

This is extremely, intensely serious, and tbh, it hurts if it is discounted and shifted onto me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am familiar with this awful feeling you describe. I was in a hugely abusive, dysfunctional workplace too. You're right, it's worse than being in an abusive relationship because you can't "just leave", or, it is much much more difficult to leave, because it holds the entire structure of your life and future together. And other people are not sympathetic. People say "don't think about it in extremes" but that's honestly what it is... it's like, you can only choose one: food/shelter, or mental well-being. Which do you pick? Anyone who would pick the second option, or insist on both options without a second thought, is coming from a place of enviable privilege. When people talked to me so breezily about my "work problems" and flippantly reminded me of the "personal power" I was inexplicably choosing to ignore, it made me feel ten times worse, and so alone. 

Reading your posts struck a chord for me. I really struggled in my job too. In my case it seemed impossible because not only was this the best job I could ever hope to get with my lack of skills, but there was an extra layer of social acceptance for the bad behaviour of my employers - because it was an organization that exuded authority on morality and had immense power to give all their actions the veneer of respectability. Corporations and bureaucracies are the ultimate masters of gaslighting, they wrote the handbook on how to gaslight, using professional language to abuse others in such a way that if the target speaks up, they are easily dismissed or punished for it.  Like, you bring up how you don't feel they are following Respectful Workplace Policy and they turn around and say it's actually YOU that's violated the Policy, and then put an official reprimand in your file, because they can. And what can you do? Nothing, and you don't want to try anything else because you know now what will result. So I totally understand that gasping, choking sense of "I have to be here, I have to take this, there's nothing I can do to change things".

When talking to someone about how I was feeling and how my mental state was rapidly deteriorating, they said "You know, if this was a relationship you were describing, people would all be telling you Leave! Get out! Protect yourself! But somehow, because it's a half-decent, respectable job with benefits, it becomes your responsibility to figure out how to just suck it up and deal with it, and everyone thinks you are the one with the problem."  I tried so hard to find ways to feel safe and empowered within the system, but it was like I was trapped from escape at every turn: denied opportunities that would enable me to climb the ladder, ignored for department transfers because job competitions were set up for pre-selected candidates to be strategically shuffled, any attempts made at addressing the problem were either brushed off by my superiors or resulted in disciplinary action against myself, written up for "insubordination" or "a bad attitude", which crumbled my confidence to such lows that I thought surely nobody else would ever hire me. I felt totally stuck. Weighing my options always turned out exactly as you describe - I could technically get out, but the cost would be immense and the risk potentially life-destroying. It was awful. So I think I can understand the feelings you describe, and I empathize. 

I too, got defensive and shrank into myself when people told me how I was choosing to make it harder on myself by having an incorrect perspective of things. All I had to do was not care about my abusive boss' official opinions of me! Let it just roll off your back! Practice mindfulness and gratitude! Meditate during coffee breaks! Anesthetize yourself however you can, so it doesn't hurt any more! And if you fail at all that, just get another job!

I'm not sure if anything I said was helpful, basically it was a very long-winded "I get you". It is not as simple to fix as people think. I'm sorry you have to deal with this...it's not fair and it's not healthy, abuse IS abuse. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This totally happens to me:

 

Like, you bring up how you don't feel they are following Respectful Workplace Policy and they turn around and say it's actually YOU that's violated the Policy, and then put an official reprimand in your file, because they can. And what can you do? Nothing, and you don't want to try anything else because you know now what will result

 

but it bears understanding that this isn't just one employer, that I've been subjected to the gamut of abuse in every job in my lifetime, and we're talking 4 decades.

and the things that are said and done to me are *not* shruggable. It's not"defensiveness."  I know the difference. They are intensely personal and in unchangeable physical ways as well, and supremely effed-up in ways I can't even talk about, and on multiple fronts at the same time.

And I cannot "just" get another job, unfortunately. Like I said, this one took 2 years.  It's not because I have self-esteem issues. It's because there are only rare opportunities that suit my needs and my challenges and limits.

Plus there is the fact that none of them are ever going to be okay. 40 years of being the target for severe abuse in workplaces (notwithstanding the personal, social & relationships) teaches you that this is not the right environment for you. I literally waste my life in these hours (& there's not all that much of it left!!) - along with the trauma, it actively prevents me from the pursuits that give my life any meaning at all. I wasn't born to be in this scenario. I was born for other things, which is a zero-sum game. Working means I can't do the things that have any meaning at all. I have challenges and limits that aren't "oh just overcome them!" types of things. So overall, working for others and continually subjecting myself to their bullzhit is the wrong answer. But I'm not succeeding in finding the magical solution.

I literally cannot take this. Nobody could. It's stuff that's super-personal, extremely degrading, not "just" things that can be fluffed off.  

Aside from the crazy, which also cannot be fluffed off because one IS required to navigate as in try to figure out what they want behind all the crazy nonsense that you are being flagellated for not magically somehow knowing.

But just because I say it cannot be fluffed off, does not mean it's because I have a flaw in perspective. It may be stuff that is utterly different from anything you may experience, and it may be so integral to just *existing* .... I can't explain..but I certainly wish I didn't have to keep trying to"prove" that this is not a matter for "perspective," and that there is no anaesthesia (especially after so much repeating and unrelenting harm)... the wounds are not my fault for experiencing them.  

I don't know how many ways I can say it to get through that there are some things that are *not* perspective (and btw, that itself has been used for really horrific gaslighting)... And ****not*** things that can just roll off, it's not LIKE that, why can't anyone really believe me??  *I* am not to blame for what I am experiencing or the damage it does to me. 

Do we tell people in abusive relationships to just look at it differently? To let it roll off their backs? If the man threatens them, personally, financially, emotionally, do we tell them to ignore it? Just change how you look at it? 

For me it has been nearly unrelenting for decades. What others.experience may not be what I do. I don't know why I can't be trusted to have accurate perspective. And that itself has been weaponized against me -again and again. I guess nobody has to trust me, but it's pretty upsetting on top of everything to not be  believed or trusted to know what I experience or know what I know in life. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear, I didn't mean for it to come across like I was criticizing you. I was trying to say I believe you. Sorry about my clumsy delivery! Of course I don't think it's your fault or that there's something wrong with your perspective, or that you have to prove anything to anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Workplace abuse is still so largely unrecognized because of the fact that it's done under nonabusive-sounding words like:

- policy

- ethics

- professionalism

- teamwork

And can be instigated by people in positions of authority who are highly respected and easily likely to be believed and gather support from others in the workplace because of their position. 

And can threaten, gaslight, demean, punish, criticize, and target all in the name of professionalism and upholding policy/rules.

And can create such an environment in which, when the victims of abuse cry out, they are automatically assumed to be a threat to authority, are ignored or dismissed for exercising their right to voice injustice, and then punished for even bringing up the abuse in the first place.

It's a horrible, horrible setup, especially because losing a job on the basis of standing up for justice is losing livelihood and health insurance and essentially basic survival.

Your suffering is relevant and a normal reaction to what is going on around you.

Your feelings of entrapment within this work environment are real.

This abuse is not your fault. 

It's not okay. Not okay at all.

((((Quaddie))))

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0