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JamesF

Verbally abused man

90 posts in this topic

No I have not. Why?

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Because, since you are married... if you have time and it's not an emergency to get out, it's a really good idea to get a consultation with at least one attorney before you broach a separation with her.

That way, you can learn your overall rights, learn about the process, and how to best accomplish the split, in addition to your specific rights for getting her to leave.

Knowledge is power.

Also, since she would be living there, it's a good idea to prepare by getting anything important safely out of the house - just in case. All your important financial information and copies of anything of hers that might be relevant, any memorabilia or things you simply cannot replace and are of great emotional value, etc. Think of worst-case scenario and take anything you absolutely cannot replace and get it somewhere safe. Rent a small storage if you need to. 

 

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So James, what happened?

In my case I had the "we need to separate" conversation twice, about a year apart, and both times we stayed together. I caved. I let him talk me out of it. Then one day....

...I had had enough! I was mega pissed and the more he talked the worse it got! I left in anger (while his back was turned because he was known to block the doorways) and I had surprised myself! I thought..."I'm OUT! Now stay out." And I did. Doors opened and God made a way and He lead me to safety. 

No one really addressed how to get her to be the one to leave your house. What I would do is YOU be the one to leave, at first. Then after you are out and declare that it's over and can't be fixed, then work on switching places. Maybe even help her find a new place to live is she is up for that. I'm sorry that you will be missing her child but unfortunately they are a package deal. 

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6 hours ago, blueskye said:

So James, what happened?

In my case I had the "we need to separate" conversation twice, about a year apart, and both times we stayed together. I caved. I let him talk me out of it. Then one day....

...I had had enough! I was mega pissed and the more he talked the worse it got! I left in anger (while his back was turned because he was known to block the doorways) and I had surprised myself! I thought..."I'm OUT! Now stay out." And I did. Doors opened and God made a way and He lead me to safety. 

No one really addressed how to get her to be the one to leave your house. What I would do is YOU be the one to leave, at first. Then after you are out and declare that it's over and can't be fixed, then work on switching places. Maybe even help her find a new place to live is she is up for that. I'm sorry that you will be missing her child but unfortunately they are a package deal. 

I've been to afraid to talk to her at all about it. Every day i don't makes me more upset with myself. She's starting to show some sign of going more back to being herself. Today I asked a simple question and had to ask 4 times to get an actual answer. The way she's acting is fake... She will tell me one thing and tell her friend how she's actually feeling.

 

I'm still searching for answers on if she is covert or over narcissistic. I'm not sure why it matters, but I need some reason to point to why and validate. I have read all of the replies to this thread over and overt.. I'm praying one day soon I'll have the strength to say it's over. By the way it's my child from a previous relationship, my wife and I don't have any kids together. 

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If it's fake, time will tell. Every time. What she's telling her friends is her true "non-fake" self. They are so good a keeping us mega-confused and second guessing ourselves.

Ending a marriage is a major life step, not to be taken lightly, and everyone here has to do it their own way and in their own time, if at all. There is never judgement here for that. There is no judgement if you stay forever and lean on us for support. 

When I learned what I was dealing with it empowered me. I listened to YouTubers like: Sam Vaknin (self professed narc that explains why they do what they do) , Kris Godinez, What's Wrong with kris and Steve (no nonsense info), thrive After abuse (watch the red flag series), and Trent Shelton (motivational). Most men I think identify with Richard Grannon-Spartan Life Coach (had a narc gf).

I found out, through the help of my therapist that mine was Covert Narcissist and Borderline Personality Disorder. Those 2 nailed him to a T and once I learned about them I knew better what to expect In The future from him (not good). And it came true, sadly. 

Some will say labels don't matter. If you're miserable you're miserable and it doesn't matter why and how. But I had to study it for myself. I needed to know. I devoured You Tube videos and learned a ton!!!! Then I knew better what to do. 

Dont forget to pray for clarity. It will amaze you. Pray for clarity and buckle your seatbelt. 

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13 hours ago, blueskye said:

If it's fake, time will tell. Every time. What she's telling her friends is her true "non-fake" self. They are so good a keeping us mega-confused and second guessing ourselves.

Ending a marriage is a major life step, not to be taken lightly, and everyone here has to do it their own way and in their own time, if at all. There is never judgement here for that. There is no judgement if you stay forever and lean on us for support. 

When I learned what I was dealing with it empowered me. I listened to YouTubers like: Sam Vaknin (self professed narc that explains why they do what they do) , Kris Godinez, What's Wrong with kris and Steve (no nonsense info), thrive After abuse (watch the red flag series), and Trent Shelton (motivational). Most men I think identify with Richard Grannon-Spartan Life Coach (had a narc gf).

I found out, through the help of my therapist that mine was Covert Narcissist and Borderline Personality Disorder. Those 2 nailed him to a T and once I learned about them I knew better what to expect In The future from him (not good). And it came true, sadly. 

Some will say labels don't matter. If you're miserable you're miserable and it doesn't matter why and how. But I had to study it for myself. I needed to know. I devoured You Tube videos and learned a ton!!!! Then I knew better what to do. 

Dont forget to pray for clarity. It will amaze you. Pray for clarity and buckle your seatbelt. 

Wow I started watching the red flag series and it's alarming, although I only got to the 2nd flag before she saw me and asked what I was watching. 

I'm not sure if this is clarity, but she has been on medication to help her depression etc. Well, she woke me up at 130am crying hysterically that she's seeing things and hearing things. I got really scared and didn't know what to do. I think the meds are causing the hallucinating. I hope so anyway. The alternative scares the heck out of me. It was very surreal. 

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Oops, I just found this old reply below in drafts....thought it had posted then. Posting now just in case it might be helpful.

 

Gotcha. That does make things more difficult, unfortunately.

Well, some hints...

Keep what you say very brief, and very clear. Like something like, "I've been very unhappy in this relationship, and it's become very clear to me that we are not compatible as partners. I have decided that we need to separate. My decision has been made, and I'm not going to change my mind." 

Give her a, deadline by which she must move out. Make it clear that you intend to stick to that deadline and there will be no extensions.

Don't get sucked into trying to explain, no matter what she says or how she cries or claims she didn't know or blah blah blah. Just keep repeating the same brief points. I'm not happy. We're not compatible. 

 

Oh....BEFORE you do this, make sure anything that's precious or important to you is stashed temporarily in a place outside the home for safekeeping. Do not trust her with your things. 

Do not tell her she is abusive. She won't believe it anyway, and would just find a way to turn it back around onto you, or try to promise to change, etc etc. Just don't even go there.

Accept blame or responsibility or whatever it takes...it doesn't matter, as long as you can get her out of there.

If you haven't seen a lawyer yet, I'd highly recommend getting a consultation before you take action. This will also help you learn your rights in getting her to leave.

 

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K now.... I hope you got her to her doctor re: the hallucinations...that's scary stuff.

 

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She may be self medicating by adding "other stuff" to her anti depressants which is a recipe for disaster. I would try to get her help for that. 

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Well the same as every other time, the anger built up and was released last night on me. I'm very glad I found this community and all the YouTube videos. I knew what she was doing and could stay one step ahead because of all the resources available. 

She got out of the ER and came home and was adding very distant and withholding. I left for a few hours I wasn't going to let her be ugly towards me when I was making an effort to comfort her but she would not let me. I found out why the next day. We barely talked all day, and I came home from my parents house and first thing she said was "are you f..in around or what". No hi..no how was your day, nothing. I told her I'm tired of her accusing me off things I'm not doing. She went to our room. Later on I went to go to bed and I can tell she's looking to pick a fight. Well she did and ended up saying how I only care about myself I wasn't there for her I am a POS crying screaming at me in my face. She ended up leaving and came back. This all happened around 1130. I wake up before 6am for work, so the fact that she didn't care enough to let me sleep upsets me. 

So all of the questioning and doubt is gone. I prayed for clarity and God answered in a big way. 

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That not letting you sleep is one of the worst. Mine would get up in the middle of the night and rage around the house waking everyone up. It was always over something stupid like what you are talking about. I'd have to get up and console him just so that the kids could get some sleep. I'm glad to be out of there. Don't have kids with this woman.

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Yes He does.............I remember praying for years to help me fall back in love with my XH............and he was always accusing me of not praying hard enough because he just knew I wasn't giving my "all" to God.

In a moment of perfect clarity, the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and said "You can't fall in love with him because he is not safe".  From then on I began planning my way out and here I am 16 months post-divorce and doing wonderful

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So it seems now she is trying to make everyone take her side. The counselor we saw for awhile called and wanted me to be "more supportive". I told her my side of the story but she continued saying I need to be there for her. I was pretty shocked that she didn't really seem to listen to my side. When someone is being a jerk by ignoring me and treating me like I'm bothering her it's very hard to continue to pour support and show kindness. That may sound bad but I've been downed to the point where I was close to depression. I have a big heart and great character and I feel like I'm wasting it. I'm tired of the constant chaos that comes with someone like her. I'm ready to get my life back and heal and move on.

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Yeah, unfortunately all that is super-typical abuser behavior.... And also unfortunately typical of one of the major reasons it's not advised to do couples counseling with an abusive person.

I've had very similar personal experience with couples counseling which kept me "in" a lot longer than I should have been, with very bad consequences. 

Try not to pay attention to the counselor, they operate as if it is a "shared" problem, but abuse is not the same as "normal" marriage issues and it is not shared.

You are not required to give and give yourself to a person who is showing you they are not loving or caring toward you.

It is, in fact, *healthy* to not want to do that.

And the counselor should not be calling you and telling you what to do. That, to me, is not okay either. Crosses boundaries, imo. 

:(

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I went to counseling with abuser with his counselor and basically ended feeling re-abused every time we were there. It was almost like the counselor couldn't accept that his client was abusive and that I was the one who needed to stop doing things that caused my H to hit me. Crazy. It was horrible. 

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I wish I could just tell her it's over and begin healing. I feel this weird responsibility to be there for her as she goes to a psychologist to get evaluated. I worry that by me breaking up will send her deeper into depression. 

I am however very tired of the situation. We barely talk at all and when we do it's very uncomfortable. She still has occasional outburst of voice raising criticism and downright negative outlook on life. I don't understand how someone can not see how beautiful life is and see it in all things. 

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If she has depression, it is an illness rather than a viewpoint.

However, that doesn't mean you are required to be subjected to her anger and abuse. Those things are almost likely not due to "depression."  Something else seems to be going on there. 

And you can do whatever you'd like, actually - it is your own life to live. If you feel responsible to be there, perhaps some sort of compromise with yourself...... Perhaps you can still be "available" as a "friend" to support through her evaluation, yet not living together? Maybe something like that?

First step though it's always wise to see a lawyer before leaving, if possible - it helps make some decisions and get certain things in order first.

 

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4 hours ago, Quaddie said:

If she has depression, it is an illness rather than a viewpoint.

However, that doesn't mean you are required to be subjected to her anger and abuse. Those things are almost likely not due to "depression."  Something else seems to be going on there. 

And you can do whatever you'd like, actually - it is your own life to live. If you feel responsible to be there, perhaps some sort of compromise with yourself...... Perhaps you can still be "available" as a "friend" to support through her evaluation, yet not living together? Maybe something like that?

First step though it's always wise to see a lawyer before leaving, if possible - it helps make some decisions and get certain things in order first.

 

Usually about the time I start feeling sorry for her, she lashes out. This time It was small, but it reinforces what I need to do. She seems to sometimes be hyper irratable and little things set her off. I'm going to meet with a lawyer to get some knowledge on my rights. 

If she lets me I'll be there for her once she's not under the same roof. 

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James, you are not abusive if you react to abuse with annoyance or anger. Please do not let that thought trap you into guilt and therefore trying to "do better". Consider that NOTHING that YOU do will make a real difference (which is both depressing and liberating at the same time).  

Something that really helped me is to repeat to myself that abusive people do not operate from the same set of moral principles. You cannot "work it out together" because you start from two different world views, with one of you ultimately only interested in keeping the other in line. Yes they will do whatever it takes - including laying off the abuse for a while, even 'admitting' to bad behaviour (but often in a couched way so it's still not really their responsibility).

 

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1 hour ago, Appletree said:

James, you are not abusive if you react to abuse with annoyance or anger. Please do not let that thought trap you into guilt and therefore trying to "do better". Consider that NOTHING that YOU do will make a real difference (which is both depressing and liberating at the same time).  

Something that really helped me is to repeat to myself that abusive people do not operate from the same set of moral principles. You cannot "work it out together" because you start from two different world views, with one of you ultimately only interested in keeping the other in line. Yes they will do whatever it takes - including laying off the abuse for a while, even 'admitting' to bad behaviour (but often in a couched way so it's still not really their responsibility).

 

I don't get annoyed but it does anger me. One big mistake I've made is getting advice from too many people. It tends to confuse you because you get different opinions from almost everyone. Part of me wonders if I'd handled the first time she was abusive if it would've stopped. I definitely think I'm too passive. 

You're right as hard as it is to admit there isn't a way to workout with someone that has different morals. Funny thing is she claims to be a Christian that knows the Bible. 

I went and spoke with a lawyer and I basically need to just get her to leave. That's the best way to do it. I had an alarm system installed which puts me at ease. It's something I'll have to gather all the courage I have to do but it is better than currently...I do not like being in the same room as her. I'm very gun shy. That's no way to live and needs to be fixed.

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I am sort of in a similar place as you. I am so unhappy now but having a hard time pulling the trigger. Unfortunately for me I am the one that will have to go when I finally do get he nerve to do it. We also have a child so I know it is going to get messy. I am going to meet with a lawyer to find out my rights soon. I hope you get the courage to do what you need to soon. 

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2 hours ago, JamesF said:

 Part of me wonders if I'd handled the first time she was abusive if it would've stopped. I definitely think I'm too passive. 

 

Nope. You can't fix abuse. You can't control it, and you could not prevent her from being an abusive person. She just is. 

The memes that go around preaching that "we teach people how to treat us" aren't really all that correct, especially in the case of abuse. It's not your fault she's abusive. That's just the way she is.

HOW could you have "handled" her abuse the first time (if you'd even realized that's what it was, at that time) to have prevented her from being who and what she is?

What could you possibly have done to have magically changed that in her?

She doesn't abuse because you "let" her. She abuses because she's abusive.

 

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8 hours ago, JamesF said:
9 hours ago, Appletree said:

 

I don't get annoyed but it does anger me. One big mistake I've made is getting advice from too many people. It tends to confuse you because you get different opinions from almost everyone. Part of me wonders if I'd handled the first time she was abusive if it would've stopped. I definitely think I'm too passive.

I have felt frustrated when I tell people about my husband being abusive and they don't understand how I feel. I think that the ones that are going through it or have gone through it can understand it better. I agree with Quaddie that you can't stop them from being an abusive person. Abusive people can change the way they act by being nicer, abusing you about something else, by being more covert in their abuse but they are still abusers. They are still the same inside. They would have to change how they think before they can change. I was told by a counselor that thoughts come first, then emotions and then our actions. Abusers have abusive thoughts which make them act like they do. It use to be more difficult for me to see how my husband continued to be abusive but it is getting easier. I use to get my hopes up that he was changing a lot because of his actions but as time went on I still saw abuse and I was able to clarify it easier. 

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12 hours ago, JamesF said:

 Part of me wonders if I'd handled the first time she was abusive if it would've stopped. I definitely think I'm too passive. 

I struggled with this a lot too - sometimes I still do. You're right, there is a lot of confusing "Advice" out there about what people say you should do, or what they would do if they were us. I got a lot of advice from people telling me to "nip things in the bud" and show my ex that I wouldn't stand for such treatment. If I failed to do this, whatever followed was my fault, I "allowed and accepted" it. I think this kind of thinking is a remnant of abusive conditioning. It certainly doesn't help when you've been overtly and specifically told "If you would just ___, then I wouldn't do this to you". We get this idea in our brains that we really could change the way other people choose to behave if we could only get things just right. Be less passive. Be more passive. Find that magical order of words that would unlock understanding and compassion within them. And abusers encourage this, because it lets them take all responsibility off of themselves. 

It is total brainwashing. 

Let's say - just hypothetically - that you had been less passive. That any of us had been less passive and strongly stood up for ourselves at the very first instance of abuse (which is usually so subtle, most people don't even notice). And let's say that your partner had reacted by stopping whatever they were doing, and even admitted they shouldn't have done that. It worked and now things are ok! But...are they? That still wouldn't change the fact that we were dealing with people who thought it was fine to treat us that way. We still would have been in relationships with abusers - with people who go through life needing to be reminded and asked not to abuse people, because abusing people is normal for them. Is that really ok? Imagine being in a relationship where you know that this person won't treat you with respect and kindness unless they have to - so you have to be watchful, and remind them to do it, specifically request it. That's not ok. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, hoping said:

I was told by a counselor that thoughts come first, then emotions and then our actions. Abusers have abusive thoughts which make them act like they do. 

I like this advice. It makes sense. I experienced this.

When I "put the heat on" he could clean up his actions but not his attitude. So although he's not yelling and complaining left and right...so, he's quiet,...he was more frustrated than ever because he's still having those same thoughts. He's aggravated with everything I do, complaining in his head but stuffing it down. It was actually worse because he was holding stuff in. He was angry, and seething, and you could see him boiling on the inside. He was quiet but scary. This lead to him avoiding me, giving me the silent treatment and sometimes he would pop a cork and all that goo would come out at once. He was a volcano. It was no improvement. It was just a different style of anger and abuse. 

That's when I knew how deep these issues go. 

And James I think I know where this advice is coming from. It's the whole "boundaries" issue and I often had the same thought. If I had better boundaries, I would have been treated better. That's what we are taught. It was good to hear all these encouraging words about that. 

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