• Announcements

    • Curly

      Replying to PMs

      Please note that you can not reply to a personal message by replying to the notification email. Recently admins have received some email responses to personal messages. This is because some members have replied to the notification email. You can not reply to a personal message via the email. What replying to the notification email does is send a copy of the original message and the reply to the admin email address. It does not send your reply to the person who sent you the message. The email notification of the personal message does request "PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL!"
    • Curly

      New Members and validating your account.

      New members registering please do not hesitate to contact our admin if you do not see a validation email within a few minutes of registering. Yahoo and some other email addresses tend to block the validation email and without this part of the process your account remains in limbo. Our admins are more than happy to help you complete the validation process should this automated system fail. We can be contacted via admin.our.place@gmail.com Please note that you may experience a delay between registering your account and validating before you are able to post as we do also manually process all registrations to keep this forum free of spam. Your account should be activated within 24 hours of you completing the validation process. Thank you.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
hoping

Update on my life

29 posts in this topic

 My husband is still trying to treat me better. I would like to hear him say how he realizes what he did, why that was wrong, and that he feels bad about it. He said he is trying to treat me better because he knows it hurt me, but I haven't heard the words I want to hear and I don't know if I ever will. He yelled at me and my granddaughter mainly because he was sick and I was arguing with her to go with me to pick up some take out to eat. He told her she needed to go with me and he told me to show her who is the boss. I admit that I was wrong, that I should have made her go and told her to not argue with me, but he should not have yelled at us. I didn't want to deal with her attitude and his, so I got him some food and we went to her house. I did not want to stay and hear him gripe at me and she was angry at him for yelling and she was crying. He later called her and apologized. My counselor told me that he was right about showing her who the boss is, but he should not have yelled. While my granddaughter and I were at her house she told me that she didn't think we made a good couple because he was grouchy all of the time. I still feel dread when he ask me to have sex and I still don't trust him. If I were to see what I think is genuine remorse for the abusive things that he did to me, then I might be able to trust him again. By remorse, I mean realize what he did, and feel pain for it and be sorry for it, and want to change. I know I'm repeating myself, but I wanted to try and explain it better.

The reason I am still with him is because he is trying to treat me better, we do have some good times watching television, talking, going out to eat, we help each other when we are sick, we both do chores and it is financially easier for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How old is your daughter? If she has her own home, it sounds like she is an adult. Why would your counselor say that he is right to show her who the boss is? Why is a parent the boss of an adult child? I don't think that the yelling was right. Anyways, I hope things get better for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if technically speaking he may have been "right" that you should "show her who's boss" - which I think is a separate thing... To yell at you about it in front of her is undermining and discounting to you. It's insulting and critical of you - in front of her. He should not do that. If really you're supposed to "establish that you are the boss," then someone else controlling and shouting at you in front of her directly undermines that premise. So he was only appearing to be supportive on the surface. In reality, it was still disrespectful and inappropriate.

(I think really it means establish good boundaries for how you'll accept being treated.)

It would be normal and natural to never, ever trust or feel good about giving your body to someone you don't feel 100% good about being with. It's normal and healthy to not trust him. He's not changing. He's just "trying to treat you better." <-- that's the keyword there.  That's just so abnormal of a concept if the relationship were actually with a loving, caring partner. If a partner is actually loving and caring, there aren't all these hoops and angst and drama to go through just to be treated as if you were a regular human deserving of respect. In a loving caring partnership, that respect is just there because it is part of the love and care and partnership. Not like an add-on app that you have to work hard to install and try to download drivers and troubleshoot and fix to get it to work part-way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bennu

My daughter was at work and I was watching my granddaughter at my home. My granddaughter is seven years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quaddie

Yes, I agree with you that he was undermining and discounting to me. I agree he should not yell at me or even talk to me about discipline in front of her. Yes, I'm glad you pointed out that him acting that way in front of her would actually undermine my authority if I did what he said. I am glad to hear that in a normal loving relationship I would be respected and not have all of this drama. Thank you for all of your knowledge it really helps me. This is one of those times that I  didn't realize his actions were more than trivial. Sometimes I downplay what he is doing when I don't have confirmation from someone else. When my counselor told me he was right about showing her who was boss, I even put his abusive actions lower on the abusive scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's confusing in the face of it all ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hoping said:

Bennu

My daughter was at work and I was watching my granddaughter at my home. My granddaughter is seven years old.

I'm sorry hoping. You clearly wrote granddaughter but I misread it or something. I like what Quaddie said about undermining. It's really true and easily to discount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hoping I believe your counselor knows you have no intention to leave him so she is probably trying for you to have some peace in your house by working with narc man. She sounds like a crap counselor. It not a who the boss thing! It a who's you equal thing. No, he will never give you validation. He can't it's not in him. If you are going to stay with him this is what you sacrifice. He upped the anti in front of your granddaughter to not respect you and control you!!! This was a very deliberate action. Look your granddaughter is 9 and she is saying I do not like who you guys are? Acting this way is not an I am sorry, get over it issue? You have much deeper concerns and you can't hide it. 

Does he know who you are?
Does he acknowledge you in equations?
Do you win in discussions without having to change your tone?
Does your family feel like they are part of the equation? (Are you guys still trying to control your children because of big ego) 
Do you go into you children's home and bring out their goals and the best in them?

Your 9-year-old granddaughter is right? Look your issues are affecting the family. If I was your daughter I would sit both of your tushies down and show you who the boss is!!! Quit making your daughter cater to Narc man. Your daughter has the right to lead her family in peace. Let him hear it as uncomfortable as it makes him feel? Quite protecting his emotions he has to learn the world will not part for his ego he is responsible for what he creates. If it not inclusion and peace it is pain and divided. People will not participate in things if it just not fun for them? So grand daughter will move from that point where she wants people in her life to I am busy and well catch you when I can. They grow up and you can't undo these things. She will remember how you both made her feel for the rest of her life. You can only be better people. If he will not acknowledge it? Band-aide or true fix? 

This is where you settle or fix it? (It is what it is) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When my daughter left home she told me that she would never visit as long as I lived with her father.   Both children had long before that refused to participate in any more family activities. That's one of the things that got me to leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MorningGlory

Yes, I guess it is possible that my counselor doesn't think I will ever leave him. I wonder about that myself. Thank you for being honest with me. We are both a problem to our family and our grandchildren. Me because I am not strict enough and my husband because he is abusive to me and others in our family. My youngest daughter which is my granddaughters mother is verbally abusive too. One of my problems is now that I am not as afraid to leave him I have started standing up to him and he has said that he is sorry for how he treated me and that is why he is working to treat me better. It is hard for me to pinpoint what is behind that comment that he is sorry that he hurt me and is trying to change. He says he is sorry but then does some of the same things again. I wonder is he messing up or does he still believe the same things, that he is right and only apologizing to keep me from leaving. It is difficult for me to want to believe that he doesn't mean it for some reason. I don't know for sure, maybe he does believe he was wrong and is falling back to old thinking, or maybe he has never changed his beliefs and that is why he is still acting this way when he gets upset with me. I think it is probably the second reason, but I have a lot to loose if I leave because I believe this and then find out that I was wrong. Sometimes I think I need to give up on our marriage and leave.  I would like to separate from him but not get a divorce yet to see if he would change but then I would not be able to get the financial help I need, since I have a very small disability check. I don't think anyone would help me if I don't file for a divorce. I am having such a difficult time getting a divorce which would divide our assets and neither of us would have much left. I am worried about trading an abusive situation for a poverty one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bennu

My oldest daughter doesn't want my husband (which is her stepfather) around her children because of the way she said he treated her(abuse). She doesn't like to be around him either. I love her and all of my grandchildren but it is complicated which I won't go into here.

My youngest daughter still talks to him and we watch her daughter sometimes. My daughter and my husband are verbally abusive and they tend to argue about certain things. My husband, my daughter and her husband are stricter on my granddaughter than I am. I struggle with telling her a few times and then making her do something. When I realize how bad I am acting, I start setting better boundaries with her and making her mind sooner. This is a real struggle with me and I seem to do it over and over, but I keep trying.

He will help our youngest daughter financially even though they are not real close emotionally. He loves being around our granddaughter and he doesn't mind spending some money on her. He doesn't like it when she gets upset with him or when she won't do what I or he tells her to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to stay with him it is okay? Will he change NO because true Narcissism is a lack of internal connection? They do not have the ability to do the deep soul searching needing to fix it. They love it when you do the work you pour it out here. Even you stewing it out here brings you closer and shows care he wants. Does not matter if it's negative. Your pain points were pushed and that is part of the mechanism. It is the external care. He loves you working your heart out for him. Who cares if it is killing you on the inside. This is not their concern. Yes, they will say sorry and even show short term change. It's will not be lasting change these individuals are not capable. It's more to get you under control and back into you rightful place again. 

Quote

 

Article: https://www.firstwivesworld.com/index.php/my-narcissistic-ex-husband/item/8134-staying-in-and-surviving-a-narcissistic-marriage

You will need to weigh your situation and decide what is best for you and your children.

It Will Never Be About You

You are signing up for a relationship where you will be invisible.

A narcissist doesn’t realise that they are narcissistic. They only know that they are important and of course everyone is vitally interested in everything they do! They never question whether they might be a bit self-indulgent but they will quickly let you know that you are being self-involved when you are not focused completely on them.

A narcissist can’t be empathetic. He does not want to get involved in your emotional life. He does not have the ability to read between the lines or even take a hint. He may come home from work and find you sobbing into your coffee and he’ll ask what you’ve made for dinner and when it’s expected to be served.

If you want to stay married to your narcissistic spouse you’ll need to accept that.

 

 
 



So mentally you can accept that your husband is this way the question is will you ever get what your heart desires. That pain will remain. You can only try and minimise the effects by using the narcs very weakness, which is nacistic supply as a treat reward. He does good deeds he get compliments. He has to do only positive actions to get verbal rewards. In turn kind of makes you a bit narcissistic. Sorry but because you have empathy you have something he doesn't. It's like my husband is colour blind. He can do things to help him see things a certain way. Can I ask him or expect him to see purple if he does not have cones to see this colour? You have to know it's going to be like driving by braille your who life. He knows he is near the edge of the freeway by hearing the car wheel throb from the ribbed grates in the concrete at the edge of the expressway. So if you realise this is what you have you stay awake while driving and give nudges. Lots of women stay married to narcs but I do not hear one of these women say by gorge he now emotionally gets me. He now put his own needs last and put everyone and the whole family before his internal desires. Look you can spend another 10 years hoping he can figure out how to make you feel beautiful on the inside or you can say screw him I am beautiful and the things you think are important will not interfere with my ability to function in my life. If you stay with me it will be because you did not leave me. Is this not how he treats you? I could not sacrifice this openness of love in my life. Just needed more to live than a 3-day shopping fix. I was not growing and my strength of perseverance was damaged. Parts I loved about myself were disappearing and felt a bit brain damaged from the abuse. For me, it was not worth sacrificing anymore for his ego. You might feel differently than I did? That is okay. :-) 

I think your husband knows he is doing it. The question is did he say sorry because he could not hide that one? He now can say, OOOO I said sorry! As if sorry fixes it! LOL 

 Your granddaughter has the right to ask for respect and peace from adult family members. This is not disrespecting you guys it is actually very healthy. Please do not squash her self-respect here. She does not need to be called out for being disrespectful. Especially for being honest for telling you guys yelling in front of her makes her feel like garbage and she can't see why you're both together because you argue a lot. Now how she says it might need refining.

"Granny when you and grandpa argue in front of me I feel hurt and it affects me? " Please stop! 

Trust me if your granddaughter wants to tell you this. You can imagen the number of adults that really would say it if they could. By her being able to say this her odds of ending up in a relationship with a Narc and much lower. It is healthy. 



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hoping said:

I am having such a difficult time getting a divorce which would divide our assets and neither of us would have much left. I am worried about trading an abusive situation for a poverty one. 

I very much relate to this. It seems like that is what is happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I fully understand!!! 

I am working out of poverty. It is getting better. Trust me I do miss much of the comforts. This is where you know yourself. It is fully okay, to be honest with this part. You have done very well you have taken a stand. Yep nothing left financially but for me, it was the right thing to do. I was deteriorating badly. Not sure I could have made it through the old age part. We were starting to up the arguments and it was getting wicked. I settled too much along the way and did not get my proof. Forgiveness gives a clean slate but it also buries you. I say call the police and forgive afterwards. Try being straight forward and sweet but very firm. Hard lined but say it softly and sweetly. See if he starts to respect a smart woman that knows herself. Know if he leaves you other men would be happy to be him. Somehow that confidence is attractive. Narcs love to have things they can't have. So if you project this he might respond with interest. Call the weak man's bluff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bennu

I'm sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time financially. Thank you for listening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MorningGlory

Thank you for the support site link and your advise. I checked out the site but I feel uncomfortable about their terms, conditions and privacy. By what I read it seemed they might use my words whenever they want, in a book or article. I have been telling my husband more of what I think now. Since I have talked to him about his actions and how I would leave if he doesn't treat me better, he doesn't always get angry when I tell him I'm not going to do what he suggested. He use to get angry, his voice would be stern and harsh and if I didn't do as he said, he would get angrier and keep talking to manipulate me into doing what he said. He use to scare me by the physical stance he would take, he would tense his body, look at me with anger and it would physically scare me. He has changed some of his actions, but I'm not sure he has changed his beliefs about me or life. He use to nag, nag, and nag me until he wore me down to get the type of love making he wanted, but now he knows I won't put up with that anymore. I don't like to mention how I can get another man unless he says something about another women in a joke. I think sometimes it's a joke and at other times it is meant to make me jealous or to manipulate me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So,  now he tries to control his anger to keep you from leaving.  

Not because he's had some major enlightened moment to make him realize it's not okay to treat someone like that and because he doesn't want to hurt you and he's changed inside. So.  ..it's still a controlling tactic. 

How's that bathroom floor,  by the way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quaddie

Yes, I think this may be what he is doing. He repaired the bathroom floor and painted it with deck paint. I haven't mopped it yet, so I don't know how it will hold up. He says it will, so we will see. I complained about our refrigerator and dishwasher not having a grill on the bottom front of them, He said he will make some out of wood! I said, " Yes you could." I am tired of trying to get what I want. He took the grill off of the dishwasher and didn't put it back on for some reason. I didn't ask him because I was afraid he would gripe at me about it and like I said, I am tired of dealing with him. I did buy some new curtains for the kitchen which he didn't complain about. When I read your question, "How's that bathroom floor, by the way?" I laughed. Thanks for the laugh. It wasn't funny when I was going through it, but now I can laugh about it. One time we were in a nice restaurant and he ordered a salad, when they brought it to the table, he complained to me in an angry tone about how the bowl was too full to eat it easily. Next he stuck his fork into the bowl like a five year old having a temper tantrum, which flung a large piece of lettuce flying though the air onto the floor between the tables where the waitress had to walk. I decided I wasn't going to be co- dependent and pick it up, so I sat there wondering if the waitress was going to slip on it. I don't know if he ever considered that and he never did pick it up.

Tonight we were talking and he said in an angry tone that he didn't want to talk anymore. I told him that he could have said it in a nice tone instead of an angry one. I ask him why he said it so mean. He said that I should have known that he was sleepy and was trying to fall asleep. I told him that he still shouldn't have said it hateful to me. He said you are ready to talk because you slept all day, but I'm not. He said you have said mean things to me in the past, why did you say them? I told him mostly because he has treated me this way for so long that I had started being this way to him. I don't know if I mentioned that it is now a defense to take up for myself or because I am angry at him so I am treating him that way. He said you don't have to pick up my bad habits, you need to pick up the good ones. After we discussed that he started commenting on a t.v. show that he was watching. It aggravated me because he was talking again and he said he didn't want me to talk and keep him awake, but it was ok for him to comment and I guess it would have been ok for me to answer him as long as it was just a couple of words. He also said that I wasn't easy to live with in the past either. He is also angry that I stayed up all night and slept today because I am not on the same schedule as him. I wonder sometimes if he isn't some of the reason I do this. It is so peaceful at night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My goodness, hoping, does that sound like the life I had. That story about the salad is so typical. Also the talking when he doesn't want to and then later it's just fine when he does. The reasons make no sense because they are made up. The real reason was because he says so. It's because he wants to gripe at you.

Is my life better now? Instead of worrying about him, I am worrying about failing at my job and having enough money to survive and getting through this divorce. It's better, but not terrific.

It seems I'm doing fine without him. There was an adjustment period of finding work and a place to live and stuff. I'm still in the limbo of divorce. 

I got to the point where I couldn't tolerate him anymore. I couldn't tolerate being in the same bed as him. It felt so repulsive. I couldn't handle talking to him. I didn't even like being in his presence. I hated the childlike way he made his own predictions come true, like with the salad in your example. In a similar way he would make it so that I had done something so that he could yell at me about it. I was tired of being yelled at for things that he manufactured. He also said that about having to put up with things from me too. I was an angel compared to him.

You are right. You do start to behave badly as a defense for how you are being treated. It's nice to stop doing that. It's nice to go back to the nice person I used to be. It's taking me some time to get there. Slowly but surely I am rediscovering the person who I used to be.

So hoping, if you get to the point where you can't stand it anymore, you can survive. If you feel better where you are, that's OK too. We are here for your complaining and venting. We are here to give you the support that you need and won't get from him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bennu

14 hours ago, Bennu said:

My goodness, hoping, does that sound like the life I had. That story about the salad is so typical. Also the talking when he doesn't want to and then later it's just fine when he does.

I didn't expect you to say that. Thank you for telling me. I get upset with him and think he is acting childish, but then I start thinking that maybe he is just a grouch, acts like a child sometimes, and that maybe I am getting too upset at the things he does. When I hear about how much worse some of the other abusers are, it is so easy for me to think he is not that bad. I have felt various emotions from the things he says and does; sometimes feeling hurt, angry, shock, disbelief, and feeling crazy. I go from these feelings to thinking he isn't as bad as some abusers and that maybe he isn't as bad as I think he is. There are some very good things that he does, that's what makes it so difficult. There are times I feel sorry for him, obligated to him and when he says I was not easy to get along with in the past, I know he is right. I know I did things I should not have and was far from perfect. I know also, that some of the things I did were because of his abuse to me. Thank you so much for your support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is childishness. It's pathological childishness. It's emotionally destructive childishness. I realize that I was being destroyed little by little. It is so damaging to be treated that way. You can't understand unless you live through it. It seem overly dramatic, but it's true. I think that I was lucky to get out with my life. I don't think I would have lasted much longer. I'm pretty sure he was trying to kill me and if he hadn't succeeded, illness would have. I don't think he wanted to put up with me anymore and didn't want to give me any money either. Still doesn't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bennu

That is so sad. I am sorry you had to go through that and that you are having to deal with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to be perfect in order to merit respect and caring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, hoping said:

Bennu

That is so sad. I am sorry you had to go through that and that you are having to deal with him.

Thank you hoping. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and by the way? Deck paint on wood (wasn't it plywood or chipboard?) is still not an appropriate flooring material for a bathroom. But probably just as well, since if I remember correctly, he may not have fixed the subfloor correctly and that may rot or mold underneath anyway...   so it's just as well to be able to have easy access when it needs to be re-done.

Sorry, he's a lazy, overbearing, immature, controlling @ss.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0