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  1. Well, the heloc didn't go through, again. And again, it's not a full no, just fix this and that and reapply in 4 weeks. So, I knew I was stuck for a while longer. I wallowed in it a bit, then put on the big girl undies and got going. But today, it all blew up. No physical violence, but he said something that really was inane and I was upset and pointed out to him what he'd said. He started justifying why he'd threatened to burn the house down and I just couldn't listen any more. Tried walking out, he kept coming after me, continuing with his justifying, as if he was going to get me to agree with him. I finally went outside, and he followed me out there. So eventually I let it out, and told him the ultimatum was the abusers treatment program or I leave. Therein ensued the most absurd mental roundabout conversation / screamfest ever. He just won't do it. But he's the one who is trying so hard, ha. Excuses range from he's just got done scaling back his social obligations, and doesn't want to take more time from me and the kids (I know, right?!!), to he's not one of them, it's not like he gives me black eyes, to he grew up with this, he lived it, they can't teach him anything. Interspersed with tons of how I am an abuser, I am not blameless, blah, blah, freaking blah. He finally left, going to go confess his soul to his mother or brother, or something, as if that's enough to change things. And I'm choosing to stick this out another few weeks, hoping to get that loan, and be able to get away and start over. I'm so exhausted. All I want at this point is peace.
  2. Today I am happy. I know I am close to being able to go. I expect approval on the loan today or monday. My sister is in town from out of state, and it's such a relief to see her and have her support. My brother told his wife what is happening, so now we can all discuss me going openly, and I am just beginning to realize how huge it is have no their support. I still have times where my mind reverts to mental theoretical arguments I might have with H, or different scenarios that might happen, but I'm getting much better at simply redirecting my thoughts to the immediate future, traveling to our new state, finding a good home, the beauty and peace we will have there. I just feel so freaking good! I'm going to soak up every second of it!
  3. Bedtimes and schedules are a big issue around here too. Same exact thing, everyone else's schedule needs to conform to his, just because. We also have young kids, ages 5-9, and this has been going on for years. As responsible parents, we modify our lives and desires, even needs sometimes, to provide a proper environment for our children, especially when they're little. Disregarding the rest and sleep needs of small children has become something I find totally reprehensible, partly because it's so easy to fulfill that need for them. It may not have been a loud or violent blow up with him, but again, its displaying his issues of entitlement and control, and a vivid reminder that these men do not and will not put their children's needs as a priority. We are right in taking the children away to an environment where we can properly care for them and provide for their needs.
  4. Yeah, just a few days into good behavior, and I can see it's hopeless. It still all revolves around him. I can now see the entitlement, it's much more clear. In his mind, he is trying and making great sacrifices to be accommodating, but it's still all about him. And I realize now that there is a lot of fantasy woven into his thinking patterns, that comes out as "jokes", like wouldn't it be great if you (meaning me) suddenly couldn't wait to do x,y,z?. And that x, y, z will be a greatly detailed scenario that he knows would be like the last thing on earth that I would want to do. Sexual stuff, patriot stuff, all sorts of scenarios. It's creepy. I saw the attorney yesterday, who was surprisingly unhelpful, especially for $200 consult rate. The good news is that he felt totally confident that no judge in our county family courts would consider me taking off with the kids as parental kidnappong or interfering with custody, as long as there was no legal custody arrangement already signed by the courts. He thought that, from that perspective, leaving the state would be fine. He did not have any enthusiasm for trying to monitor whether or not my husband went to the courts to initiate proceedings, other than waiting for a mailed notice of service to be forwarded to me. I still think there could be better ways to track that, and will call the courthouse myself. I met with my brother and sister yesterday and their spouses, and talked to another brother on the phone, and all their support is so hugely comforting and reassuring. I'm the youngest in a large family, and they are all twenty years or so older than me, so it feels like the voices of wisdom and reason when they confirm what I'm thinking, and tell me they've just been waiting for me to come to my senses. I'm ready. Another week or two, hopefully, and I'm in motion.
  5. Ok, glad I asked. I won't show it to him. I am continuing with the plans to go. Credit report updated and I'm headed to the bank in the morning to re-initiate the heloc. Then I have the lawyer appointment in the afternoon. I did prepare a list of things I want to see from hi if he is truly serious about changing. I do not believe he will do them or keep doing them, but I feel like it sets some boundaries for this next phase. Or maybe I should just not bother, and follow through with leaving in a few weeks, even if he's still on"good" behavior? This is is such a freaking roller coaster ride. Yesterday he was so serious about being sorry and winning me back, and listening to what I had to say. And today the verdict came in on the trial of his friends in Nevada (not guilty), so he is ecstatic and giddy and completely wrapped up in that. Which I get, it's a huge big deal, and it is so very good that these men are finally going home to their families, but sheesh. I'm thoroughly up to my neck in feeling bad, should I stay or should I go, gotta keep on with the heloc and planning either way, blah blah blah. I don't know what I expect from him, and maybe I'm just in a mode of blaming him for everything right now because I'm so bitter.
  6. Do you think I should ask him to move out and separate for a while? He's headed back to work and could certainly afford it, although I know he won't want to. Being separated from me and the kids is like his worst nightmare. How do I find an abusers treatment program, if he would be willing to go? I ordered the paperback version of the book, Why Does He Do That, and am planning to ask him to read chapters that I mark, I'm thinking of ones in the section on abusers changing their behavior.
  7. Last Friday night, the groping and snarky comments when I resisted were in full swing. I had just spent the day in town, 50 miles away, doing more preps to leave and interviewing for a job I have no intention of taking (my excuse for going to town alone). I just couldn't take the entitlement and hipocrisy another second. I was mad. And I just laid it all out to him. I have been trying so hard to just be a yes girl until I could get out of here, but I couldn't do it another second. I started with his po rn infidelity and his subsequent refusal to sleep with me, have sex, interact with me, that went on for years. I told him I couldn't begin to comprehend how he thought he was entitled to use of my body for his pleasure whenever he wanted it, when he was unfaithful, then too cowardly to talk about it, and then allowed that to be his excuse to totally cut me off from affection and attention. By that point he was shocked and listening and I just kept going. Told him he opened up the Pandora's box with the marriage builders book, and it wasn't ever going back to me just going along to get along. That he was abusive, physically and emotionally, and that everyone I had confided in was aghast and terrified and advised me to leave. I went on for a quite a while, but I didn't give any indication that I was planning to leave or had taken any steps in that direction. He listened. He certainly seemed to be ashamed. He cried, and talked and told me I was right, and that he had destroyed our marriage years ago and that he hoped I wouldn't leave and give him a chance to win me back. Since then it's been hard for me. I am still angry, more so than I've been in years, because I'm actually allowing myself to think and feel. Yesterday he got home from work (he's working now, thank goodness), and asked how I was doing and I told him honestly, not good at all. So we had another big round and I told him I would love to believe all the stuff he said, and I can see over the weekend that he is trying, but I don't truly believe it can last. He said he is trying to change the way he thinks and views things, that it's not worth losing our family or losing me to be right or to be in charge. I put up some specific examples and he said he couldn't believe I felt like I had to ask permission for things, or that I would want my own car, but that he would go along with it if it was important to me. I believe he is sincerely trying right now. I think he realizes that this is it, and not only am I done, but that have biblical justification for it, and he can see I'm thinking clearly. I told him straight out if there's ever another violent episode, holes in the wall, threaten to break a mirror, etc, that I will vanish with the kids and he will never see me again. He said he understood and knows I mean it. So, now he is trying. I suppose that if I thought anyone would ever be able to actually overcome this, he could, but that doesn't mean I think he can or will. I'm going forward with the heloc, and setting things in place. I don't know if I will actually bail as soon as I have funds, or if I will give this time. In some ways i am angry that NOW he gets it, after all these years, NOW he is ready to change? Im frustrated, and mad all over again. I have been offered this job that I do not want, and supposed to have more interviews, to make time for going to town alone and getting ready to leave, but now what do I do about them? And it would have been extremely good for the kids to get to where I was planning to go and get settled in, but sticking around here to give him another chance messes that up. I do believe that he sincerely means to try. He has never accepted responsibility for anything like this before, never expressed remorse, or asked for another chance with me. It was either a given that I was staying, that I was wrong and he was right, or threats to kill me, or himself, or burn the house down. So this is new and certainly appropriate behavior. And of course, if he could change, it would be for the best to keep the family together. We could have a dream life if he can treat me like a respected partner instead of a foolish child. But after everything I've read, and the stories I've read, it sounds like this is exactly what they all say.
  8. There's lots of ways I feel controlled. Around the house, a big issue for me is the way our bedroom is laid out. We have moved a bazillion times for his work over the years and every time we do, the bedroom has to be setup a certain way in case there is a break in or FBI raid and we have to defend ourselves from the bedroom. So, can't have the bed on same wall as a door, he has to be on certain side of the bed to quickly take cover, etc. it's freaking nuts. Gotta have enough room on his side of the bed for all the gear, bullet proof vest, gas mask, multiple rifles, etc. I get squished up and have no space and it just feels crazy. Most of the controlling he does is very subvert. I want to go to the store. I have to ask, first off, because I can't just decide to go. I have to ask if I can go,if he will watch the kids, which car I can take, which is almost always his nasty little commuter car that I hate, but it gets better mileage and god forbid we waste a drop of gas. And then there's the big lecture on how the strore in our little town is such a rip off, and wouldn't it be better if we wait and plan a trip all together to town 50 miles away and go to walmart? (Because who doesn't love shopping with 4 kids and a husband, right?). And by the time we get that far, I don't even want to go, which was his point all along, and I give up. It's like that on most things, going to see my mother, etc. today is my first grandsons first birthday party, and we're not there because he had to plan 4 hours of meetings today, to save gas, which puts me out with our 4 kids for like 10 hours, and there's no way I can do that. So I end up making apologies, again, to the grown up kids, and just staying home. Oh, another lame control issue is where the frigging trash can and recycling can go. It's a long ways from our house to the top of the driveway, and a decent ways from there down to the highway where it gets picked up. He wants the cans at the top of the driveway, which means our 7-yr-old has to drag the trash bags and recycling bags all the way across the yard to the cans. I think the everyday trip should be short, and the once-every-two-weeks trip to the highway can be longer, especially since the bins have wheels. But it's not even about who is right, or which way is best, it's that there is no discussion, no concept of negotiation, it's just his way, he said so, and that's it, he would literally laugh at me if I implied or said that we have to come to an agreement. That would seem hysterical to him.
  9. Wb, I am there too. I am making lists of all the little things that need to get done before I go. I have a little notebook and it's got all my thinking in it. What passwords to change, towns to consider moving to, and details on each one, what to take from house, what to put in storage, what to take in luggage. Every detail, so I don't have to think it through more than once. Think, evaluate, decide, then write it down. Most days, I am exhausted, just want to sleep. So I do one or two easy things on the list, and veg the rest of the time. Every so often, I feel good and hopeful, and then I hit the coffee and do the thinking and evaluating and deciding tasks, and write down what I come up with. I sleep a lot, and veg out a lot. I am very much just marking time. To combat the second guessing, I made a numbered list of the issues I think are relevant here. I have unfaithfulness, violence, and controlling. I wrote out brief descriptions of the main incidents that have happened that I think are examples of abusive or marriage-violating behaviors. Then I wrote out some of the questions that keep popping up in my mind, and my answers to them, as if I were speaking to my friend or sister or niece. Like, when is it for better or for worse, and when is it time to leave, unfixable? Are you unhappy or are you afraid? When does my duty to be a helpful and loving wife end and his ultimate responsibility for his actions begin? Looking at my questions in light of the issues and incidences I wrote above makes it very clear and undeniable. The only question I don't have an answer for yet is what do I tell the kids.
  10. Great job! If you can get control back of your income, you will feel sooooo much better! Then you'll be able to take control of your life!
  11. Confused, I'm right there with you. We are in a honeymoon phase right now, and it's so easy to just coast. Last night I took a bath, to be alone and think, and I made myself outline in my head the major incidents in our marriages when he broke our vows, and when he was absolutely over the top abusive. It was clear to see that the big events are occurring more frequently in recent years, and getting much more violent. That was sad, but good for me to really internalize that his issues are way beyond fixing, probably even if he wanted to. We have 4 young children, and I don't know how things will play out long term, but I do know that I have to get them out of here. I am going very far away, and immediately getting them involved in community social groups, church, etc, and pray that if I have to face a custody hearing, that I can persuasively argue that they're well established in their new community and it would be in their best interest to stay there. Wouldn't prevent him from relocating there, but might cause him to not try too hard. I'm just moving forward, one step at a time, and let things work themselves out. Im thinking about you a lot, confused, because I think we're in the same phase right now. I also love my husband very much, although I am beginning to consider that it might involve trauma bonding. But regardless, this is incredibly hard, and just so exhausting. Hang in there.
  12. Thank you! That is a good list of suggestions. Any suggestions on how to keep tabs of what H is doing after you leave? My specific things I'm thinking of, has he bailed out of town to come hunt me down, or has he filed with the courts for custody, or what. I had thought to still send and receive texts from his mom, but I'm not sure if that's safe. I don't want to give him my attorneys info, and give him any ideas about lawyering up. I will ask the attorney if he will be able to monitor court filings daily.
  13. Needing some info on staying cloaked with digital devices. texting - can the person you text ascertain your physical location? Facebook - can your physical location when logged into fb be seen by friends? FB Messenger - can people you message find out your location? Thank you!
  14. I have an appointment with a lawyer next week. I don't intend to go through the courts unless H initiates it. Due to his strong beliefs and him being investigated by the FBI, there is a good chance he won't take that route. If need be, I'll come back for hearings with the kids and petition for full custody and to stay in our new location. But hopefully that won't be necessary. Ditto with the finances. I'll take the funds, but be prepared to return half if the courts get involved. Thank you for the advice. I will just leave a very short note.
  15. When you leave without notice, and hope to God you'll have no contact afterward, do you leave a letter? Do you say you're gone for good, or do you minimize it by saying you're just taking some time? Do you explain why you're going, call him out on his behaviors? Suggest he get therapy? We have 4 children, but I'm still hopeful that he won't involve the courts and very much hope he doesn't follow through on the threats to find me and kill me. I do intend to send his mother a copy of the book, why does he do that. She stayed with his horrendously physically abusive dad until he died, and that obviously has had some impact here. I don't want to blame her, but I want her to be able to recognize why I left, and hopefully not buy into any lies he tells, and maybe be able to explain to him why I left. Or maybe I shouldn't send it to her. Hopefully a week from today I'll be applying for the loan, and get fast approval and funding.