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About IntrinsicValue

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  1. Actually, just a question to ponder; is it WORTH it? Do you look back on your 18 years tied to him as happy, as the best possible choice for your own well being and your family's? Or, are you going to be an old lady someday, close to death, and say, "Why on the earth did I stay and put up with so much unhappiness?" I can't answer it. To me, it sounds like you aren't happy, and clearly he doesn't treat you right. Also....I never believe the whole "I'll change, it won't happen again" routine *unless* they take real and serious measures to do a hard core make over on themselves with professional counseling, and by actually apologizing and admitting and explaining that they were wrong, and why it was wrong. If they can't explain why it was wrong, then in my opinion, they are just saying "sorry" to try to control you into staying longer.
  2. Also, this is one of my absolute favorite quotes. I feel it applies to any relationship that you just can't quit release---whether it was a spouse, a friend a parent...whatever have you. You can see the similarities for all relationships. It's from the book "Eat Pray Love" (the movie sucked. Read the book ) “I’m not laughing.” I was actually crying. “And please don’t laugh at me now, but I think the reason it’s so hard for me to get over this guy is because I seriously believed David was my soul mate. ”He probably was. Your problem is you don’t understand what that word means. People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that’s what everyone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that’s holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life. A true soul mate is probably the most important person you’ll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then they leave. And thank God for it. Your problem is, you just can’t let this one go. It’s over, Groceries. David’s purpose was to shake you up, drive you out of your marriage that you needed to leave, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light could get in, make you so desperate and out of control that you had to transform your life, then introduce you to your spiritual master and beat it. That was his job, and he did great, but now it’s over. Problem is, you can’t accept that his relationship had a real short shelf life. You’re like a dog at the dump, baby – you’re just lickin’ at the empty tin can, trying to get more nutrition out of it. And if you’re not careful, that can’s gonna get stuck on your snout forever and make your life miserable. So drop it. “But I love him.” “So love him.” “But I miss him.” “So miss him. Send him some love and light every time you think about him, then drop it. You’re just afraid to let go of the last bits of David because then you’ll be really alone, and Liz Gilbert is scared to death of what will happen if she’s really alone. But here’s what you gotta understand, Groceries. If you clear out all that space in your mind that you’re using right now to obsess about this guy, you’ll have a vacuum there, an open spot – a doorway. And guess what the universe will do with the doorway? It will rush in – God will rush in – and fill you with more love than you ever dreamed. So stop using David to block that door. Let it go.”
  3. I do. I miss my 'dad', who wasn't really my dad. He would tuck me in at night. Kick my forehead a kiss goodnight. Tell me him and 'mom' would love me forever and nothing would ever change that. He *use* to stay up occasionally and just let me talk. But then he never spent any actual time with me. He never actually saw me anymore except for the 1 minute tuck in. I was babysitting several weekdays and entire weekends for them. He would always tell me "Of course we will hang out!" and then three months later--after a lot of asking and begging--I'd get an hour and a half of dad time. He had weekly campfires with his friends. Had weekly "just him" time and weekly "just spouse time". But the parent-kid time? Non-existent. When he would do something with his daughters, he told me it was actually just for his wife, to give her a break at home alone. It blows my mind, even still, to think of it. I was being told one thing, seeing another, and told I was asking for too much and needed to grow up if I questioned why it wasn't matching up. *grins* I miss the kind moments....but I do not miss the painful, heart breaking norm. Not at all.
  4. 1. You are not going out of your way to hurt him. You are getting out because it is the healthiest decision for you and your son. 2. Listen to your body, it's trying to protect you. It's warning you of what could happen. Play it safe. You and your son are most important. As for him, he can finally learn to grow up and care for himself. It's not your job to watch over him, he's an adult. Care for yourself and for your son.
  5. Do YOU want your son being around someone who is so stoned from doing weed, that he won't even be able to say someday to him, "Hey daddy, want to come play with me?" because his dad will out of the world in the exact same way he was to you? Do you want your son growing up to become like his father? To think it is okay to treat his significant other poorly someday because, well, mommy let's daddy treat her that way? Do you want your son growing up hearing the fighting, hearing the abuse? Do you think this is a healthy, safe, nurturing environment for your son? Answer; of course you don't. That is why you are leaving. And that is why you should not feel guilty. YOU are being an adult and doing what is best for your son, something his dad is not capable of. If you are worried(and for good reason) of verbal/physical retaliation, how about you have a family member in your home when you tell him? They don't need to be in the room, they can be in the next room with your son. But tell him you are leaving, you are not coming back, it is done, and you are doing what is best for your son? He will of course argue, I about guarantee it. BUT, if you have a family member there, he may not become violent towards you or your son. Maybe ask you dad to come over, you know? Safety is really important.
  6. ? That is true...they did give me a place to get out from my bio family. And I do think 'dad' meant very well, and I think he did want to actually be 'dad', but I do not think 'mom' did at all, and I think her jealousy--that I didn't fully catch on to until now--is probably partly to blame for him saying one thing and then acting the other. Or why he would quickly push me away from a hug when he heard her coming. He didn't think "romantic thoughts to me" and I didn't to him---but maybe *she* would see it and think that. Hmmm....that would explain several of his actions, if he wanted to give me parental affection, but was afraid of her switching it in her head to "romantic" or getting jealous. Though, I'd not call it a "favor" exactly for him to promise to explain, and then treat me like a criminal. That was hell. That was hitting suicide rock honestly. It was a giant shock. But, I see how separating from their version of "parent-daughter" with me is very, very healthy.
  7. Wow, talk about food for thought...I do agree, I can see that now, that I just assumed "Ah, at last! This is what a normal family looks like, and this is what a daughter is to do for her parents." Because....I did believe it was a daughter/sister role. And I did orbit around them. My younger sister--the only one from my past bio family that I am close to--told me I would avoid making any plans, I would constantly have my phone on and check it incase "they needed a break", I would not use any long weekends from work because I knew they would need me to watch my 'sister'....And I did. I was high strung trying to juggle breaking free from the ties of my bio family who kept trying to get me to come back, and trying to gain a a full time job to to save money and move out and get my sister out from our childhood home, and trying to pay back the "best people in my world" for saving me and for loving me and wanting me to be their daughter. I've recently started to have to tell the tale of it all, the last 4 years, and my childhood, to people such as my therapist. And I feel....weird and guilty about it, and stupid and naïve, and I am hesitant to just tell things exactly as they happened because they *do* sound bad, even though I remain convinced 'dad' didn't have any intentions at all. At all. It just sounds that way. Why? I don't know. But...I think if the theory of him making it go a bad sexual way were true, that I wouldn't of had to beg for time to see them, that he would have wanted to see me more. He *adored* his wife, and I never once saw him cross at her. Even--admittedly--when I thought she was waaay out of line and should have been addressed. In fact, she would snap at him so often, I'd catch him crying about it convinced he's a terrible husband to her. And this is the dude who completely took over doing their daughter's night shift when he worked two jobs if I weren't there to do the baby at night, who showered his wife with gifts, who rallied people as "operation save my wife from her PPD" getting people to do things so she could rest... Nah, I don't see the sexual part. All of it, is weird and secretive and things I was told "they both discussed" they clearly never did. But, I see now, at last, that it WASN'T normal. It WASN'T healthy. I should have been given direct answers to my questions, not "I don't know why I am broken, I don't know what's in my head, I will think about it and tell you later"...only to repeat in 2 months. I lived full time at their house for 4 months, and before that would split up my time between my bio family's home, and my new 'family's' home, and my sister's home. I was a traveling gypsy, quite honestly. And every time I got to be at my 'family's' home, I was relieved. It felt...safe. And, I think it was safe in comparison, but not normal, not healthy...and the true roles of how a parent-daughter relationship *should* be, weren't in effect. I had no comparison, I have no idea at all how it is supposed to be. So...I trusted them. Even when I moved out though that spring, I *still* revolved around them, I still wanted to help them. I had their daughter over longer than ever before. Giving them entire weekends without her. Friday night til late Sunday. I didn't do vacations. I didn't plan my own time. I would get texts about dad being so told, or mom is having a tough go, and I'd sweep in and pick up my 'sister' to give them a break. And I'd beg to see them, because especially not sleeping in the same house, I didn't see them especially now. This past February, 'mom' accused me of things, dad lied and told me he'd talk about it, and they blocked *me* out entirely, taking that poor little girl who formed an inseparable bond with me over the last 4 years. So now...I feel like I am really on my own. It's just me and my bio sister who is two years younger than me, and she isn't toxic like my bio mom or older sisters were. We each can do our own thing, and the other supports it. For the first time...I feel...like I am learning, again. Trying to step back from everything, and try to learn. To give up that longing for parental love and affection and protection that drug me deep into a...well, really weird and unhealthy familyhood. I am shocked to discover certain things about myself...like what kind of books I like to read now that I have time to. What I watch now that I have the remote. What I think of this event, or this person. It's just...it's like meeting myself for the first time. All of this has left me with a bit of a vendetta against mothers and fathers though, and the "family unit". The whole get married and have kids thing. I'm just...not interested. I've never had a boyfriend, never been on a date (turned down offers, couldn't imagine being with the person for more than a day yet alone my life). I am trying to not have that viewpoint...but, I'm not fighting it. I am just going to shift focus, and figure out *me* and *myself*. And cross the rest as my experience of life outside of my bio family and second family expands. Really, thank you for your perspective...it was...it really engaged my brain. In ways I hadn't seen it all before. In ways that I can dissociated myself from it all and say objectively, "Yes, I do believe you're right. That is what it looks like this Heather girl did".
  8. In this group, *no one* will ever be able to "post too much" or be viewed as a burden. No one here is forced to read your posts or take the time to respond; understand that we do it because we *care* about you, we've all had different experiences yet are tied together, and we just want to support you and see you make it out safely. When I was in the thick of being part of a new" happy, normal family", I had to always be on the defense about them to *everyone*. My biological family, friends and even just other church members were constantly asking me, "Well, why is this like this?", "Or you and just their daughter spend a lot of time together, I never see all of you together as a 'family'". They would inquire why I had someone else's daughter for special events like treat-or-treating, or alone on my birthday, or even once on Christmas. I would get defense, give every reason I could think of in the book, and always just say, "You don't understand, it's not like that." But...it was. It was "like that"..."like that" meaning "they are taking advantage of you". I would try to talk about it, decide I was done trying, see the tears and hear the beg for one more try, and I'd willingly be sucked in. I never felt better about it, just...a sense of dread, of "here we go again." I got to the point that I just started saying, "Yeah, one more time, huh? In three months, this exact conversation will happen again, and nothing will change, at all." But. When *they* left me, after "giving me another chance to be their daughter" since I wasn't doing a good enough job at it, and they said they were just playing along to their own idea? I was the one begging for answers. Trying to get it back. Even know, 4 months later after no contact with them, I miss them. I want to "try again". Except, I don't. My brain kicks in, and it remembers. It says, "So. You ACTUALLY miss being in the same room as them yet they were too busy on their computers to talk to you? You REALLY miss them only talking to you via FB or text messages? You REALLY miss your only conversations being about taking care of their daughter? You REALLY miss empty promises that they will spend time with you? You REALLY miss begging for an hour and half of real, in person time just once a month? You REALLY miss crying yourself to sleep because you don't feel seen? You REALLY miss hearing them say one thing and watching them do a completely different thing? You REALLY miss being told it's all your fault and that they are great parents and that you can't ask for time with them? You REALLY miss that? REALLY?" And no, no I don't. You know what I miss? The *idea* of how I *hope* it would have been. I truly believe that's part of what brings us back time and time again. "One more try". We love the other person, against our better judgment, whether they treat as well or not. We love them. We have a desire to be seen, loved and have the future together that you *imagined* you would in your mind, that you hope you could if you could just get it right. But. It's NOT going to happen. It's not. Read the other posts. There are people who have been trapped their entire lives, always, always, always trying "one more time". But realize this; someday, you will be *out* of time. Your whole life will have passed you by. In the time that you could have spent finding yourself, enjoying your friends, enjoying your family, maybe meeting a new significant other who would treat you right, crafting, reading, doing whatever the hell you want in sheer bliss---you instead spent all that time trying "one more time" for some manipulative a-hole who never once shows real, long, lasting change. We love you here. WE support *you*. It's hard as hell to really allow ours to dare to imagine a different life, and to actually make it a reality. But...it's so, so worth doing. We are here to support you doing that, but none of us can do it for the other; in the end, it comes down to the *individual* to call the shots, make the big decisions to completely cut the jerk from their life, and to put into action safe guards to never allow yourself to try "just one more time" with that jerk.
  9. I have that *exact* same thought in my own head. How, the people who didn't want me around any more, could tell their story, and people would say *I* abused them. And *I* believed myself, that *I* was the abuser. *I* became suicidal over that fact, sick to my stomach for being something and not seeing it, I told myself. But you know what? THAT ISN'T TRUE. Look, darling, you can lay out the facts. I HEAR you saying he's doing nice things. And I HEAR you saying he's doing things no one should do to someone. Sure, he could post on here. He could say wrong things that you have done. But guess what, sweetie? He would need to COMPLETELY leave out details; he would need to LIE to us. He would NOT be able to say the entire story of example x, y, or z, because to do so, to spare no detail, would REQUIRE him to LIE to US. Why? Because if he didn't lie, if he told the story as is, we ALL would see that he is 1. Controlling 2. Manipulative 3. Disrespectful and 4. THAT YOU ARE SO SO SO MUCH BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM. Look. We ALL have said, or done things that we aren't proud of. We all of hurt humans. All humans in the history of ever have done that. The difference though, with this boyfriend of yours? He will never, ever change. Not sincerely. He will always revert back to his true inner self. He will never apologize and mean it. He will never try to learn from his mistakes. He will never admit his mistakes and believe he is in the wrong. Healthy human beings do all of those things when they have done something wrong to someone; they will admit it, they will apologize and mean it, they WON'T KEEP DOING IT, they won't say 'I only did this because you make me do this because you're such a b*tch", they will actively work on doing better next time(example: you snap at the cashier when you were impatient for having to wait in line at the store. Next time you, go know that was wrong, and you ON PURPOSE practice patience and kindness). So sure, we'd believe him. But he'd have to lie through his teeth, leave out all the facts and 'gaslight' us all; just like he just did to you.
  10. I did the same in my own experience--anything that was given as gift that just was a lie, I got rid of. Any pictures, took them down. Any cards and notes with lies on them, put away. I love that you are paying it forward, and I am excited to see *you* emerge from all the crap victoriously!
  11. If you were to talk to this 'mom' I had, she would frame it so perfectly, so concise, that they gave me everything, and it wasn't enough, I just made them feel like crap no matter what. So they stopped asking to try again, and let me chase them off. She would say how I made her feel like a bad mom, and I made them feel like failures. I think that's why I keep thinking, "Maybe they feel that *they* believed they were the ones at fault for those years, but then realized *I* was actually the abusive one, and left to heal" And I believe it. Except, my logical kicks in and says, "Really? You honestly buy that? You never said they were failures, or bad parents. All you did was say "Look, you did this, this situation happened. It completely contradicts what you *told* me. Can you please explain? I really don't want this to be some act, if you don't want to be my parents, please, please tell me. And we can have a different relationship. I just want honest." And from that, I was always made to feel guilty. That I was never satisfied and always snapping on them. Though every time my "snapping" was me sobbing uncontrollably trying to get them to tell me the answer, instead of just saying "I don't know, we'll change" and they never did. None of it makes sense because the situation was not good, they were not honest. I've had to tell this to my therapist for the first time, and he utterly shocked me by saying pretty much exactly what you did, and that the 'mom' was very, very jealous, and topped with her own known mental health issues, the situation was doomed to play out poorly for me. I argued him, and told him that's not possible. Months, and yup, I mean months, later, I tell him that this 'mom's' sister said she isn't right mentally, and she is jealous. And my therapist just nods, and says "Remember our first conversation?" He says I get deep, deep in my own head, and that's how I keep allowing myself to assume all blame and kill myself over this.
  12. Actually, I deeply and perfectly followed that. And, you rather hit the nail on the head, too. I *do* still wonder what they are doing, what they are thinking, how much they must hate me, what did I do, etc, etc, etc. I allow myself to...forget...the facts. To forget the pain I wrote nearly daily of them not seeing me or treating me right, or saying one thing and doing another, of how I just feel used as a some "free babysitting" scheme. In fact, if I ask myself "Do you REALLY want to go back to that? To feeling like that? To giving up all your time with nothing in return?" And Hell, no, I don't, actually. I don't. I hung on for so long hoping that it would change, that they would become parents, become people who did want to spend time with me, and actually see me. But...empty promises, all the way. Thank you, you are right. They aren't worth my energy. I have a feeling this will need to be a daily thing I remind myself of.
  13. Welcome to a group of people who all have felt so alone, and now, together, we support each other. It's wonderful to be heard, to be *believed* and not told "You're making it up, you're just crazy". That won't happen here. Listen to your friend. She is *absolutely* right. Take some time to read through the other posts on this site; I have a feeling you will resonate with many, and although each story is its own, I have a feeling you can see just how your future will play out if you believe he "wants to change" and will be a different man. Chances are, he won't. My advice to you? Play forward your life the likelihood that he *does not* change. Find *you*. Work on healing *yourself* from the abuse you have endured. I highly recommend going to talk to a counselor. People think therapy means years and years, but really, you can just go for as many sessions as you feel you need. And I guarantee you'll be surprised at just how immensely helpful and healing it is to sit in front of a person, tell them all the details of your story, and hear, "YOU HAVE WORTH." They help shed perspective and their own study of human nature on the topic, and their advice in invaluable. My honest, blunt advice? Cease communicating with him. And his family. You do you. *You* heal you. If he truly wants to change, that's amazing, if it's true. And *you* working on healing yourself from what he's done to you, and staying away from him while *he* heals *himself* from his own decisions and behavior, should NOT be question by him. If he demands you can't leave, or tries to make you feel guilty, then you *absolutely* know that *changing himself* is not what he's after; *controlling* you is all he wants. You take care of YOURSELF. He is an adult, and he is responsible for seeking professional help to heal himself, and he *should not* try to pull you in with it, or make it a condition in his "getting help". If he's serious about changing his life, he'll do it whether you are there or not. If he's not serious, he's going to demand you don't leave, he's going to hound you, and he's *not* going to let you heal from the horrible pain he's inflicted on you. Take care of YOU. Go see a counselor, talk. Allow them to help detangle the web of lies and physical trauma you have had to endure. Boy, I know it hurts. I *know* exactly what those little voices in our head like to say. Funnily enough, those voices are mere mockingbirds, singing the same old tune your abuser did. Teach those mockingbirds a new tune; one that says "I LOVE myself. I AM capable of loving, and being loved. I HAVE worth. I HAVE purpose. I AM beautiful. Nothing will ever defeat me."
  14. I resonate deeply with your grief. The very day my "parents" left me, they were posting smiley, kissy, life is all pie and roses posts and pictures on social media. And I think, "How am I here, trying hard *not* to kill myself because of it all...and you guys...are celebrating?" But think of this; do you REALLY want to go back to THAT? To the control, the manipulation, the mean words, his failure to value and love you as you deserve? Someday, you (and I) will look back on this as a grieving period. And we will be so, so glad that we were brave enough to Keep.Walking.Away.
  15. You are so, so right. It's awful messy business...but there is hope in doing it, and a better way to live, yeah? I think...I think I am just not good at realizing that "letting go and forgiving" the situation isn't a once and done deal, but rather something I will need to do over, and over, and over again. Until finally, it won't come to mind and I won't need to do it over, and over, and over again. I need to go look at that forum....I think I'm in a sloshy pot of denial and I tried bargaining and anger. (by saying I won't do x,y,z if you just won't leave me...even though I never should have done that). Only the anger keeps turning internally to myself. Maybe that's it though...I need to forgive them, but I need to forgive me too, and realize it's a mistake that I will reap insurmountable survival, life and people skills from, and I will find myself after all of this is done